gem drops

[compulsion]

I am posting this mostly out of curiosity, for people who have more guild leading and PvE experience than myself.

On this server I have seen drops from dino, bugs, and rarely a drop in Hate. Despite usually being in the "xp group", I have not seen 1 gem from Fear or Sky. Gem prices are through the roof, and there are plenty of established 60s who are still trying to get a decent resist set.

What I don't understand is, if this server has the same drops as on live, why were gems so common and cheap in on live servers. As a PK on RZ I had no problem collecting a very good resist set from item loot alone. I don't even remember JC stuff being of any significant value at all. When I rerolled for the SZ release, after our first Vox kill and just a few planar raids, diamond and bd gear was being distributed by the guild. At the time I was the 3rd of my class to hit 60, and we were the first raiders for our team, not the recipients of leftover goods.

Look up diamond on allakhazam and you will find several posts from 2001 stating that these gems drop from several high level encounters in several zones, and specifically naming imps, giants, and higher level guk mobs as having a chance to drop them. This period specific evidence also aligns with my personal experience that the various gems were not very rare on live. I have not found any pre-Velious information on drop rates, unfortunately, so for that I am just going on memory.

So, if you lead a guild, ran a guild bank, or just have a wealth of PvE experience from live, I'm really curious to hear your take on the subject.

[Tomatoking]

you are 100% right gems in fear hate and sky were common , fire giants too

you dont honestly think this server is even the slightest bit like live do you?

it was made to be like live , they tried and i give them credit but truth is it sucks

[tehruoh]

still pretty fun tho

[Tomatoking]

not really , only had the population for 1 guild really and they established themselves by exploiting vox and rode the recruitment bandwagon through kunark

even paid off staff to not get banned , dunno how any of you take this so serious.

[compulsion]

There are like 1000 other threads for endless name calling. Could this thread stay relevant to the actual topic.

Tehruoh I agree. EQ was a fun game. This server has had its moments. The issue at hand is why game mechanics have been changed, which it seems they have, in order to force even longer hours of farming.

EQ already takes a pretty serious time commitment. I'm wondering why drop rates have been changed in order to throw another barrier in between players and endgame. I don't play this server because I want "counterstrike with elves", but I also don't expect to be forced to waste dozens of extra hours(or longer) on what should be a regular part of progression.

Gems on live, evidence suggests, were just a part of the game that you picked up as you went along and enabled players to transition into endgame. Gem drops here, because they are rare drops in limited areas, actually serve to prevent players from making that same transition.

[Jenni D]

just do bugs in seb. diamonds jacinths n bd common as seeing HB making a fool of himself

[Cwall 52.0]

i miss heartbrand posting inane bullshit on the forums

[Twain]

I would assume the reason the drop rates are lower is because there are not as many people farming them. On live, you have a shit ton of people killing the mobs 24/7. With the drop rates increased, you obviously get a lot of gems. On live, it would not be a big deal because there are plenty of players. On R99 however, every lvl 20 unrest twink would be 200 MR. All these twinks would kill the server population because they would destroy every new person trying to level. I do remember leveling my bard on Live down in The Hole. I soloed there for a long ass time making bank and maxing AAs for each level. I assume the Hole's drop rate was probably low until Luclin or maybe PoP.

[Nirgon]

Must have been nice just handing out all those diamonds and blue diamonds like candy for your Vox raids.

In Gates of Discord or whatever expansion you were on when that was happening.

[Twain]

I'm pretty sure this was like Underfoot lol. I only played a bard on live for 6 months before I quit again. I would afk at the rock with 2 spawns near the drop down to the hole. The 2 mobs spawned every 4-6 minutes and with a bard singing and Merc tank, I would afk level all day. Of course I would get home from work to find myself dead every couple days, but what do you expect playing on Zek.

[Twain]

So I played Live from Luclin to OOW. Came back during Underfoot and quit shortly after House of Thule. House was pretty easy from what I remember. I was fully keyed in a matter of weeks and raids weren't hard. Pixels were pretty cool on Live. 1 item = a full suit of armor on R99 lol.

[Tomatoking]

we dont care stfu

[tehruoh]

twainz u mised the point about gems dropping form things like fear, sky, and fire giants.

[Tomatoking]

what gems haha get it get it

[tehruoh]

lolll

[Sickpuppy]

QQ more gem drops are just fine

[Twain]

twainz u mised the point about gems dropping form things like fear, sky, and fire giants.

Did not miss it sir. Was only stating my experience with Gems in this content. The Hole used to drop mad shit on Live. I think that was because the content was updated to drop more after velious or something.

[Tomatoking]

hole was revamped several times so was eq

so called classic or pre pop eq was very dif

log on eqtitan or grand creation and get a char to 65 and go solo jugs / seb and look at drop rates , much higher

[purist 4.0]

rogues pick pocketing u suckers

[Nirgon]

I'm pretty sure this was like Underfoot lol. I only played a bard on live for 6 months before I quit again. I would afk at the rock with 2 spawns near the drop down to the hole. The 2 mobs spawned every 4-6 minutes and with a bard singing and Merc tank, I would afk level all day. Of course I would get home from work to find myself dead every couple days, but what do you expect playing on Zek.

So is your merc on red as good as the one on live? Just wondering how things continue to compare for you. Hope that diamond/blue diamond resist gear is fixed to be more like you remember, especially, as long as they keep that nasty item loot out.

[compulsion]

Must have been nice just handing out all those diamonds and blue diamonds like candy for your Vox raids.

In Gates of Discord or whatever expansion you were on when that was happening.

6k posts and can't read. The SZ release was during Velious. Not Discord or whatever other expansion you want to name drop to make yourself feel old school. Every bit of evidence and personal experience that has been referenced was classic, Kunark, or Velious. The gems had dropped during Hate and Vox raids, and were common enough that a handful of the highest level players on the team at the time were being outfitted from guild bank in order to continue progression.

"Its a random drop of several high level creatures in several zones. Best chances to get one of these are the planes or old sebilis. Good luck."

^ is the highest rated comment on allakhazam under diamond from Oct 2001. Again, I would like to find solid information from 1999 or 2000, but have not.

On this server, gems do not drop from "several high level creatures in several zones." They drop from a very few specific creatures in basically 2 zones. The drops from planes are so rare that it isn't even a factor, and I have yet to see a drop at Chardok bridge, which is probably just rumor anyhow.

Once again, evidence strongly suggests that during the first 3 expansions, on live, gems were far more available as a normal part of progression than they are here. On a server where every other player in unrest is wearing a fungi tunic, it is still 10k for a raw gem. That is pretty much the exact opposite as on live. Gem values here are inflated with only 80 people playing, imagine how much they would have cost on live with 2000 players bidding.

Think about how relatively rarely you see gems for sale on here, then imagine the population increasing 25x. And yet on live you could pick up a resist set in east commons anytime. I still remember PK looting es arms or my first tcrown, because they were "check this shit out moments", but I can't remember ever getting excited over a diamond or jacinth ring.

[mendan]

wts black sapphires and jacinths. 2.5k each. hit me up.

gem drops are fine... if jc cap was raised to 250, there would be alot more diamond rings floating around.

[Kaino]

they are much more rare then they should be, couple that with resist being less forgiving then live and it's easy to understand why half the server is playing druid/wiz

[mendan]

they are much more rare then they should be, couple that with resist being less forgiving then live and it's easy to understand why half the server is playing druid/wiz

sounds convincing...

[compulsion]

gem drops are fine...

And this conclusion is based on what?

Era specific posts indicate that many high level mobs dropped gems. The fact that this is not true on this server, actually suggests that gem drops are not fine.

Is there some post or patch note of which I am unaware that is leading you to conclude that gem drops are fine? Or is it just a personal opinion, no more important than your favorite color?

Economic logic as well indicates that gem drops are dramatically reduced from the rates on live. This server has maybe 5-7% of the population that a live server had. In the case of every other rare item, a huge % of the population has that item when compared to live. Class set gear is just vendor trash here, while it held value on live. Fungi tunics were incredibly rare on live, while on here, I would guess than over 30%(possibly more) of the population has one. FBCR would sell instantly on live, yet Boner tried to sell his for weeks and would have even taken blue plat for it.

Gems on the other hand, are the exact opposite. Any diamonds or blue diamonds that appear are bought instantly. If this server's drop rates are correct, then the exact same supply of gems would be in demand to a group 18-20x the size, and should have a value exponentially higher as well. Since the only significant source of gems is Seb, and it is farmed almost 24/7, the supply to r99, pop. 105, and live, pop. 1900 would be very similar.

Rare drops here are in low supply, but also have low demand, so they are stuck with a low to mediocre value. Gem drops here are in low supply, but have significant demand, so they have a high value. Now, if the drop rates here are the same, live gem drops would be in the same low supply, with incredible(18-20x higher) demand, and would have had astronomical value. Now, since gems were never of incredible value on live, it is only reasonable to assume that the supply was significantly higher.

The exception to all of this of course is RMT economics, which is simply to remove certain items of value from the in-game economy completely in order to force players into accepting out-of-game economic transactions. For example:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89212

The value of that item was never intended to be 450k. No sane person would farm 450k PP. It's just an arbitrary number that happens to be high enough to push a reasonable person into pursuing the same transaction in an alternative, more highly valued currency.

This is all just economic theory of course. I wouldn't presume to know for sure why some people would expend so much time and energy only to exclude in-game items from the in-game economy. That's not my business. I just want to demonstrate with evidence that gem drops were higher in live EQ during this era.

[Jenni D]

srs just do bugs in seb for like 2 hrs at a quiet time of day. ez.

[Dullah]

Gem drops aren't even close to the same.

As of now, you only see gems in Sebilis with any frequency and then its only off bugs and rarely a golem. Seb on live was like a gem pinata. They were always dropping and my friend who had a rogue said he'd pick pocket stacks of them (you can't even pick pocket gems off bugs in seb here). On live, I had tons of gems sitting in the bank, and plat diamond/jacinth gear from just leveling up. Not at all the case here.

[Kaino]

Exactly what dullah said, plus the CC spells landing with 130 Mr is just compounding the problem

[compulsion]

srs just do bugs in seb for like 2 hrs at a quiet time of day. ez.

I actually have a set for my main that I will finish out once 250 JC goes in. If I decided to specifically set aside time from all of the rest of the more interesting stuff to do in the game, in order to farm bugs for gems for an alt, it would probably take about 6 uninterrupted hours as a duo to get a reasonable collection. Most people seem to agree that the drop rates were decreased shortly after the Kunark release. As it stands now, it probably averages 2 full clears or more per single drop.

I am attempting to point out what I believe is a flaw in drop rates that dramatically decreases progression(and for most, the fun of the game) from what you would have seen on live. This isn't blue where I am happy just because I get to cyber an elf on the beaches of Ro. If people came here to re-live the unique experience of red server PvP, I don't see why they should have to endure unjustified code inaccuracies which instead make this server completely unlike live.

Everyone who has posted with their experience from live has agreed that drops were more common. Every bit of factual or logical evidence presented has suggested that gem drops were more common.

On the other side, we have someone saying "drops are fine, buy from me" and another saying "farm more".

[Kaino]

Jenni only longs in around 6 AM EST and farms when no one else is logged in and pvp is non existant.

That's not an option for all of us

[Nirgon]

Everything dropped gems. My merc and I cleaned up shop.

[mostbitter]

none of this matters anyway, you guys keep on as if you're pleas will result in development

[Tomatoking]

none of this matters anyway, you guys keep on as if you're pleas will result in development

great point

[Mingo]

Gems should be dropping where they currently are not, but gems are also not crazy rare. You can get a gem 1-10 on Allizesaur and he's a 6 min respawn and a 10 minute solo for a lot of classes level 51+. Scarabs in sebilis are simple and drop a ton of black sapphires and jacinths with diamonds and blue diamonds being more rare but still quite common.

One thing i think you're missing is that dozens upon dozens of players with full resist gear have quit this server, retiring the items. The items arent so rare, it's that the pop is tiny and people on their fifth alt have resist gear for their fifth alt. There is no economy, it's not that there are no gems.

I'm not poo pooing your attempt, but general forum posts like this do not reach devs and public board opinions do not matter to devs. A dev post in the proper forum with provided evidence of your allakhazam posts and waybackmachine information may be worthwhile.

[Tomatoking]

on live in seb bugs dropped primo gems all the time.

wasnt uncommon to see a bd every clearing

here , ive seen 4 hours of camping them and not one diamond or BD

[Mingo]

4 hours isnt a lifetime when it takes 10 days played to hit 50. that's 240 hours. leveling 51-60 probably takes another 10-15 days played? You're telling me you cant get resist gear in 400 hours in seb leveling 51-60? Scarabs drop a gem an hour on the ledge from what i've seen.

[Kaino]

Me thinks Mingo already has the good shit and doesn't want anyone else to get any.

"got mine shitz fine y'all working as intended stop qqing"

[heartbrand]

Me thinks Mingo already has the good shit and doesn't want anyone else to get any.

"got mine shitz fine y'all working as intended stop qqing"

lol'ed @ this cuz mingo is poor as fuck on red

[Kaino]

didnt say rich said obv already has gem gear

[Tomatoking]

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3051/honzolol.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/honzolol.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[compulsion]

Gems should be dropping where they currently are not, but gems are also not crazy rare. You can get a gem 1-10 on Allizesaur and he's a 6 min respawn and a 10 minute solo for a lot of classes level 51+. Scarabs in sebilis are simple and drop a ton of black sapphires and jacinths with diamonds and blue diamonds being more rare but still quite common.

One thing i think you're missing is that dozens upon dozens of players with full resist gear have quit this server, retiring the items. The items arent so rare, it's that the pop is tiny and people on their fifth alt have resist gear for their fifth alt. There is no economy, it's not that there are no gems.

I'm not poo pooing your attempt, but general forum posts like this do not reach devs and public board opinions do not matter to devs. A dev post in the proper forum with provided evidence of your allakhazam posts and waybackmachine information may be worthwhile.

I posted because I wanted more opinions on the subject, mostly out of curiosity, not so much because I think things will change or even care that much if they do. After all, several PvP bugs have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and completely ignored. Had I been able to find a posts from 1999 or 2000, I would take it to bugs, but alla seems to have nothing before 2001.

And even you agree on the actual topic; gems should be dropping in other places. Why step in to justify something that you immediately admit is wrong.

I really like your solution to this. If you are lucky, and the dino spawn is 50/50 with the PH, you could probably kill 3 per hour. Now, the drop rate is much closer to 5%, but even with your math(10%) you are looking at a little under 4 hours per single gem. And even then, your chances it being a diamond or blue diamond are small.

Bugs in seb, you are probably looking at around 2 hours, maybe less, per drop on a diamond or blue diamond. For the sake of argument, go with a 3 man group doing the camp. Even under very good circumstances, that is about 4 hours to get a gem to each player.

So basically, under the very best of circumstances, which excludes any PvP, travel, or less than ideal class involvement, it would be about 16 hours of pure farming to pick up a reasonable resist set(2rings, ear, and neck or face). Factor in a 30% success rate on combines, and you are up to 48 hours of extra farming. 48 hours with a strong group class, who gets ported as soon as they need it, and never has to PvP or share the spawn. How much extra time would that be on here?

You are wrong about people gearing their 5th alt. Level 40s who quit don't have resist gear. Higher level players sell their accounts for "blue plat" and that gear stays in circulation. Skelly listed a ton of high end gear and not a single JC resist item when he sold his account.

Most Nihilum players, a year and countless hours into this game, still don't partial elemental damage. Of those that do, most only partial fire, and that is because of surplus red dragon shields. Look at Northwest's screenshots. 180+ FR and 80 CR means that even one of the game's more active players in PvP is using resist specific dropped items rather than the universal resist JC items. While there are some players on this server with an amazing excess of farming time and geared alts, it is the exception rather than the rule.

4 hours isnt a lifetime when it takes 10 days played to hit 50. that's 240 hours. leveling 51-60 probably takes another 10-15 days played? You're telling me you cant get resist gear in 400 hours in seb leveling 51-60? Scarabs drop a gem an hour on the ledge from what i've seen.

This makes no sense. For leveling you would never farm ledge. Disco or crypt is better xp and less risk of getting blown up mid pull because you are 10 seconds from zone in. And who would do 51-60 entirely in seb anyhow? How absurd is it to even suggest that the way to get resist gear should be to level exclusively at a single, boring, slow xp camp in the dungeon that is the furthest away from vendors and banks.

The point is, EQ has always been a time consuming game, and on this server it has just been made even more time consuming. It's really no different than if there was a 20% off-chance that any named that spawned, just dropped nothing.

[compulsion]

Everything dropped gems. My merc and I cleaned up shop.

Nirgon is to EQ like Al Bundy is to HS football.

Let me tell you son, when my generation started EQ, the boxes blew up in our hands! We had to PK with no fingers!

[Albino]

Look at Northwest's screenshots. 180+ FR and 80 CR means that even one of the game's more active players in PvP is using resist specific dropped items rather than the universal resist JC items.


What "universal resist JC items" do you think it indicates he is missing?

Platinum Diamond Rings?
Blue Diamond Electrum Earring?
Golden Blue Diamond Pendant?
Platinum Blue Diamond Tiara?

Let's assume you're right and that NW is missing all these. Add them and he's at 221 FR and 121 CR. The gap between the two resists doesn't change being that they're "universal resist JC items." I don't see how a gap between the two resists causes you to automatically conclude NW is missing these items.

The reality is MR is far more important than any other resist by a large margin followed by FR and then another gap before CR. As a result in many situations you'd rather be wearing an EoE than a second Blue Diamond Electrum Earring etc.

[Nirgon]

I did score 7 touch downs in a single game.

If you want gems, try plane of hate you nerbs.

[compulsion]

What "universal resist JC items" do you think it indicates he is missing?

Platinum Diamond Rings?
Blue Diamond Electrum Earring?
Golden Blue Diamond Pendant?
Platinum Blue Diamond Tiara?

Let's assume you're right and that NW is missing all these. Add them and he's at 221 FR and 121 CR. The gap between the two resists doesn't change being that they're "universal resist JC items." I don't see how a gap between the two resists causes you to automatically conclude NW is missing these items.

The reality is MR is far more important than any other resist by a large margin followed by FR and then another gap before CR. As a result in many situations you'd rather be wearing an EoE than a second Blue Diamond Electrum Earring etc.

^ Resist prioritization has nothing to do with discussion, but...

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88148

From his own SS, unbuffed:

44 PR DR
63 MR
151 FR
71 FR

While it is impossible to say for sure, a naked hfl with these 6 total items: bd ear, diamond face, 2 diamond rings, shield of the red dragon(does have), and NoS(everyone has) would have:

60 PR DR
59 MR
100 FR
65 CR

So his PR DR is obviously too low to be wearing "universal resist JC items". If you added basic stuff like frog crown, shroud of nature, and 1 vermiculated bracelet, you end up at 100 CR, which is again, much higher than the actual number. Considering common resist items, his overall resists are far too low to be wearing any more than probably 2 JC resist items.

You wonder how I can "automatically conclude NW is missing these items." I just use addition. Diamond and blue diamond stuff adds to every resist, and his low priority resists are just too low for him to be wearing much of it.

A very active level 57 player in the oldest, most active, and highest level raid guild on the server who has put a lot of effort into building a resist set, and is still only sporting 2 JC items? I would suggest that most players on live had more diamond and blue diamond gear by their late 40s despite 18-20x the potential market for the items.

I did score 7 touch downs in a single game.

If you want gems, try plane of hate you nerbs.

In the last month:

2x islands 1-4 for 0 gems
1x islands 1-5 for 0 gems
2x fear clears for 0 gems
3x hate clears for 0 gems

Not 0 gems for my toon. 0 gems dropped at all.

[Dullah]

I did score 7 touch downs in a single game.

If you want gems, try plane of hate you nerbs.

Gem drops in PoH is borked on r99 (p99 too?).

In full clears you might see 1. Sometimes none.

[Jenni D]

yep destin, gem drops in hate on blue is as you state also.

ive never seen a gem drop in fear or sky islands on blue or red (since may/june 2010)

p sure bugs in seb are the only decent gem spot

[XiakenjaTZ]

You mean gems drop on blue 1999 in hate?

Done hate 10 times and have seen one gem.

[Tomatoking]

You mean gems drop on blue 1999 in hate?

Done hate 10 times and have seen one gem.

thats the point of this thread

hate , fear , sky , all should have gems

this game isnt itemized. Sign the charter and move on

[Nirgon]

I didn't see one every single plane of hate raid on live either. Sometimes 1 or 2.

Just saying, that's better than farming dino.

And "most people" in classic, even at 50, weren't running around in gold diamond mask/2x plat rings.

I had access to a character in Triton on Povar in additition to raiding on SZ and RZ.

130 cold should make you immune to ice comet in a classic resist system, and getting it that high with buffs took some gearins.

But as far what they want to do here... do you really need more resists? Does it help that much here? In my experience, we took full lava bolts with bard fire resist running... so why do you care!

Note: this is a PvE answer bait. Yes, raiding dragons took lots of farming in classic.

[Tomatoking]

130 cold did not even give you half dmg on ice comet

you didnt see half dmg till 200 resist and until you got vex thal gear you had no chance of resisting an ice comet

i always though povar = polish people

aka dumdums

[Nirgon]

You do realize if I was wearing frog crown, 2x plat diamond ring etc... that if someone didn't spam lures on me.. they weren't doing ANY damage (on live not here hur hur hur let's get real)?

You guys are complaining about wizards etc OP here.. but... do you realize how strong a necro in full resist gear was in Kunark at lvl 54 vs a 54 wizard? Damn near impossibru to beat a good one 1v1. Ebolt+deflux+pet control&dispel = go zone or gate.

Most people didn't have this gear btw. Most (not all) people in the best guilds? Yes. Most people overall? No.

I don't come questioning your tomato gardening shit because game recognize game.

Accept my divine word as truth, young Huggies, and be at peace.

Edit:


130 cold should make you immune to ice comet in a classic resist system



Given even levels

[Bamzal Sherbet]

he's also talkin about Vex Thal gear so ya.. not classic...

[Tomatoking]

You do realize if I was wearing frog crown, 2x plat diamond ring etc... that if someone didn't spam lures on me.. they weren't doing ANY damage (on live not here hur hur hur let's get real)?

You guys are complaining about wizards etc OP here.. but... do you realize how strong a necro in full resist gear was in Kunark at lvl 54 vs a 54 wizard? Damn near impossibru to beat a good one 1v1. Ebolt+deflux+pet control&dispel = go zone or gate.

Most people didn't have this gear btw. Most (not all) people in the best guilds? Yes. Most people overall? No.

I don't come questioning your tomato gardening shit because game recognize game.

Accept my divine word as truth, young Huggies, and be at peace.

Edit:




Given even levels


you mean heat based dots and leeches i hope

[Jenni D]

Hey pals.

Just a heads up on another gem camp. i havent checked on red but on blue there is/was a like lvl 10 frog with a silly name in swamp of no hope that has a short repop timer & 2 locations. rarely dropped bd, jacinth and diamond.
if you forum search should find it.

[Tomatoking]

dugroz the charasis key guy?