What would you add to this group?

[habsfan50]

The group already consists of SK, monk, chanter, cleric, rogue. In overall situations, what class do you think would be the best addition to this group and why? Duplicates from group allowed.

Also, what is your thoughts on having two tanks in a group? Useful? A waste?

[neem]

a shaman for buffs and backup heals

[Karafa]

another rogue or a shaman.

[Hathes]

if cleric is skilled an can handle shit i would add magic dps

especially a wizard for dps and ports and evac
or mage or necro

if you feel saver with backupheals denfinatly shaman

[bubur]

with a chanter and a cleric there shouldnt be any need for backup heals in all but the most dire of situations

recommend adding the mage, great sustained dps. you lose out on the ports/sow/evac though. imo those are only things that help when youre not comfortable. the mage is just great dps pure and simple

[bubur]

also, cant see any good reason to have two tanks. your monk can offtank, even the rogue can to a lesser degree. both can grab mobs off your casters long enough for a mez to land, or tank to taunt. both can hit the agro release button if they have to also

and again, mage pet can serve a similar purpose. a perfect disposable offtank with taunt ta-boot

[Messianic]

Shaman.

/thread

[webrunner5]

Necro for its pet and Mana battery. Oh, Oh, and they have snare also. Nice spell.

[Swish]

Necro for its pet and Mana battery.

...and patch heals. They're better than they get credit for :)

[TWDL_Prexus]

Wizard.

Ports, Evacs, Nukes, AE's. Nice to have especially if you plan to stay into Velious.

[Kaino]

Another rogue, no question about it.

[Vellatri]

Bard!

[habsfan50]

Great replies everyone, just curious Vellatri, why bard for this particular group?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

as an enchanter, I would definitely say shaman, because from a utility perspective, that just gets so awesome -- shaman and enchanter together is truly classic in the best sense of the word.

But, someone mentioned wizard, and it is very, very hard to argue against the utility of that, *if* what you are talking about is, a group that is going to adventure around together. Evacs and ports are very hard to turn down, if travel and truly difficult danger are on the menu.

[Splorf22]

Another enchanter, obviously.

[jerok88]

Duplicates:
SK - PROS: Another tank. CONS: Adds nothing new.

Monk - PROS: More dps, fun splitting. CONS: Can get dps with more utility from another class

Chanter - PROS: Much more dps with charm, another safety net. CONS: If not charming little dps increase.

Rogue: PROS: Much more dps. CONS: Adds nothing new.

Cleric - PROS: Double heals. CONS: Group doesn't need double heals.

Other classes:
Warrior: PROS: Another tank, some dps. CONS: Redundant with no additional utility

Pal: PROS: Another tank. CONS: Little dps, redundant with cleric.

Bard: PROS: Tons and tons of utility, dps. CONS: With enchanter there, bards mana/slowing/haste are not very well needed.


Ranger: PROS: More dps, an offtank/kiter, loads of utility including maxed Track. CONS: Stigma of grouping with a ranger.

Shaman: PROS: Best buffs, best slow, backup heals. CONS: Heals/slows are already adequate.

Druid: PROS: Heals, Ports, various utility buffs, decent dps. CONS: Heals taken care off

CASTERS:

Wizard: PROS: Burst, ports, evacs, better in Velious. CONS: Not the best sustained dps.

Mage: PROS: CoH, variety of pets, high dps. CONS: No crowd control, little utility.

Necromancer: PROS: Mana battery, heals, nice dps, feign death rez. CONS: Lower in dps against non-raid targets.


OVERALL:

Ranger, Shaman, and any of the 3 pure casters really stand out.

That was fun. Back to work.

[Tecmos Deception]

Shaman: PROS: Best buffs, best slow, backup heals. CONS: Heals/slows are already adequate.

There's no con to a shaman being added to this group. The extra heals may not be 100% necessary, but they will enable the group to survive things they couldn't before. And while enchanter slow is nearly as good as shaman, shamans are much better slowers than enchanters. Most importantly, the enchanter can really go all out on charming when he knows he has two sets of eyes watching his HP, an extra MR debuff on his pet, and someone else doing the slowing.

[August]

There's no con to a shaman being added to this group. The extra heals may not be 100% necessary, but they will enable the group to survive things they couldn't before. And while enchanter slow is nearly as good as shaman, shamans are much better slowers than enchanters. Most importantly, the enchanter can really go all out on charming when he knows he has two sets of eyes watching his HP, an extra MR debuff on his pet, and someone else doing the slowing.

Agreed with Tecmos. Shaman is the only choice here.

Enchanter DPS is the best dps in game when he charms. A well formed group is a battery for a chanter to do his thing, more or less.

You need a fast puller, main heals, a slower, a snap-aggro tank, sustained dps (this is secondary, FWIW i'd take 2 chanters over a chanter + any other vanilla dps) and a MR debuff.

For that, mage comes in as a close second as added dps + Malo. When I am charming in group having a sham and/or mage to malo my target makes charming 1000x easier.

[Stinkum]

things you DONT need because theyre redundant:
- haster/slower
- any backup healer (you have a enc+cle already)
- any tank class
- melee dps
- CC class

therefore, the only smart choice is int caster. honestly i would add a mage cause theyre pimp, great sustained DPS, damage shield, etc

unless you want ports in which case get a wizard

[Tecmos Deception]

Why would anyone want a wizard in this group instead of a druid?

You get triple redundancy on stuns and gain minimal mana efficiency with nukes at the cost of regen, thorns, backup heals, tracking, harmony, potential for charming, and someone to stop the damn rain/thunder/wind/snow.

[Resheph]

I'd dump the Monk and get a Wizard myself, but I played a Wizard pretty hard in Live so am partial to the class.

[Vellatri]

just curious Vellatri, why bard for this particular group?
Jerok88 pretty much said it: tons and tons of utility. (including tracking) Yes, some things are redundant, but all of your options have some redundancy.

Druid also seems like a nice complement, to be honest. Evac, tracking, speed, etc.

[Luchino]

Wizards in fast paced groups get turned into master looters bc they're always oom.

[Arclyte]

lol @ wizard. If there's a class that doesn't belong in a steady group, it's wizard.

The real answer is: whatever they are going to play for more than a few levels. Your group is already filled out and you could take pretty much any class. (except wizard)

I would suggest shaman or druid, since your group doesn't have sow or selo's. Ports are also handy, especially so since you have melee classes who can't gate.

[quido]

another rogue or a shaman.

[Nalanthius]

Ranger of course

[Splorf22]

Bards are very, very good. Having played one, my ultimate xp group is Bard/Monk/Enc/Enc/Enc/Shm.

[Vladesch]

It depends where you are hunting.
If a dungeon with runners then snare is mandatory, so either a necro,druid or bard. I'd be favouring the bard. (of course evacs and ports are always nice)
If outside you will almost certainly need sow for your puller so probably a shaman.
The other option would be a bard, but I think a shaman would be better. (since bard puller largely defeats the purpose of having a bard)

[Vellatri]

If a dungeon with runners then snare is mandatory, so either a necro,druid or bard.
The shadowknight can do this, though I'll admit it might be best to have someone other than the tank on snare duty in hectic situations. Rangers also can, and don't wizards get some sort of snare too?

[falkun]

Bards are very, very good. Having played one, my ultimate xp group is Bard/Monk/Enc/Enc/Enc/Shm.

My only issue with this is the non-knight tank (monk). But I guess if I'm using eyeball or a DoT to aggro, it won't be so hard for the monk to steal aggro while I go pull another mob.

As long as you can reliably use lull (so against everything except belly casters like fire giants), bards are better pullers than monks. Bards are great for chain pulling and added mana regen.

3 ENCs are the DPS and CC for the group. The sham is the healer, and the monk is tanking. That group will TEAR through non-raid mobs due to how fast charm will kill things.

But by the time you consider 2+ enchanters, you should honestly refocus towards AE groups. Then its enc/enc/wiz/wiz/puller(bard)/cleric. That group will earn vastly more exp per hour than your group with 3 enchanters, but utilizing completely different mechanics.

[Slave]

I too have to go off the path here a bit and just say, if the SK became a Warrior, well, they tank better (best) and do more damage. He will also level much much quicker. That's basically all the utility you need in a tank when you have a monk in the party too.

The ideal party makeup as the OP described would otherwise be:

Dark Elf or Halfling Cleric (for Hide/Darkness Necklace or Hide/Sneak)
Dark Elf Enchanter (for Hide)
Iksar Monk (for better survivability)
Barbarian or Halfling Rogue - best stats vs best exp
Ogre Warrior with all points in Dexterity
Troll Shaman of Innoruuk with all points in Stamina

Basically the only things you don't get with this is ports. (Oh no, 100pp!) Use damage shield potions on the warrior at higher levels.

[purist 4.0]

suggesting you pick like 3 races based on racial hide ability when op is planning to group to 60

lol

[Slave]

suggesting you pick like 3 races based on racial hide ability when op is planning to group to 60

lol

-Dark Elf is clearly the most superior Enchanter race in EverQuest because of this very ability. GGR is a disadvantageous item to have equipped while charming compared to HP/AC/CHA gear. Having to switch items out loses you the advantage that using the GGR would have afforded to begin with. Other races must purchase and equip GGR just to obtain the natural ability that Dark Elves can use instantly with zero gear.

-There is no reason for Cleric to not be one of these two races with Hide, as no other race brings another ability worth mentioning.

And as anyone with a brain knows, Hide is extremely useful for just taking a break. Which even people who group sometimes do. Obviously. So, your response begs the question, why are you such a ravening antiHideite?

[Splorf22]

I was actually planning to have the bard tank in my ideal group :D Maybe I got spoiled with my fungi, but: Lets assume all classes have their epic and the bard and shaman are both wearing a fungi tunic. The bard twists cantata, largos, psalm of mystic shielding, and (say) psalm of warmth.

IIRC thats (14+5)*1.8 = 36 regen from bard songs, 15 from regrowth, 15 from the fungi, and 8 natural (we'll assume ogre/barb shaman) so that is something like 75hp/tick of regen. Then we combine that with 14+11 = 25 mana/tick extra regen and the shaman will get 60+ mana/tick without ever sitting down. So all he has to do is keep the bard and enchanters up and the pets maloed which should be easy with that kind of manabattery. With 3x maloed charmed pets and a bit of bard dps this group can probably sustain ~400 or so, or about one mob every 15-20 seconds. So in Chardok that would be probably about 50-60 mobs per spawn. The only real challenge is keeping things straight with 5-6 mobs in camp at all times, but hopefully the shaman can shrink stuff :D

[Dark Team]

I would drop the monk, get a bard (bard is classic puller, better than monk in 90% of situations and ++utility) and a shaman. Unless evacs were needed, then bard and druid.

[purist 4.0]

-Dark Elf is clearly the most superior Enchanter race in EverQuest because of this very ability. GGR is a disadvantageous item to have equipped while charming compared to HP/AC/CHA gear. Having to switch items out loses you the advantage that using the GGR would have afforded to begin with. Other races must purchase and equip GGR just to obtain the natural ability that Dark Elves can use instantly with zero gear.

-There is no reason for Cleric to not be one of these two races with Hide, as no other race brings another ability worth mentioning.

And as anyone with a brain knows, Hide is extremely useful for just taking a break. Which even people who group sometimes do. Obviously. So, your response begs the question, why are you such a ravening antiHideite?

none of what you said applies to grouping besides the enchanter and making the assumption he's going to charm in group

that leaves u recommending picking 3 races so when in a group u can put on hide when ninja afking to take a piss, and all i have to say to that is

lol

[Slave]

none of what you said applies to grouping besides the enchanter and making the assumption he's going to charm in group

that leaves u recommending picking 3 races so when in a group u can put on hide when ninja afking to take a piss, and all i have to say to that is

lol

So, translating your response, I get:

"Hide doesn't matter, when you're in a group, killing mobs and getting exp, which these guys are going to be doing 100% of the time exclusively."

See any flaw in that logic whatsoever?

What race better for Cleric? There isn't a logical choice other than Dark Elf and Halfling.

What race is better for Enchanter? Whatever race you just said has exactly the same abilities as a Dark Elf, except Hide, which is extremely useful to the Enchanter class.

[purist 4.0]

See any flaw in that logic whatsoever?

naw my logic is pristine. thread title makes it pretty clear they're grouping

What race better for Cleric? There isn't a logical choice other than Dark Elf and Halfling.

"what cleric is better" is whatever you think looks the coolest and feel like playing the most. not everyone chooses race based on your autistic min-maxing racial abilities

[Slave]

naw my logic is pristine. thread title makes it pretty clear they're grouping



"what cleric is better" is whatever you think looks the coolest and feel like playing the most. not everyone chooses race based on your autistic min-maxing racial abilities

So it's stupid to base your character race on power, you should choose whichever one looks the coolest.

Awesome, thanks for your input!

[purist 4.0]

hide adds 0 utility in a group setting for a cleric so no "power" to be considered

your tunnel vision with min-maxing points to some form of autism tho

[Slave]

hide adds 0 utility in a group setting for a cleric so no "power" to be considered

your tunnel vision with min-maxing points to some form of autism tho

Sneak, that does nothing? Regent Symbol of Innoruuk, that does nothing in a group setting?

[Nagash]

A druid hands down: can back up heal, SoW, burn a target down if need be, has long duration snare (if needed), charm a pet (animals only) and port everyone around to get to your hunting spot quicker or recover from a wipe and getting back into action quicker.

Nagash/Petitpas/Jinbao/Chilper the altoholic

[Autotune]

necro is the only right answer with an SK tank, trust me.

Whoever your friend is that picks necro will love me forever and so will your group.

That's a fact, jack.

Also, nothing like the cleric and necro out dpsing the rest of the group on undeads and still keeping everyone healed.

[purist 4.0]

Sneak, that does nothing? Regent Symbol of Innoruuk, that does nothing in a group setting?

sneak does nothing for a cleric in group setting

regent symbol effect is clinging darkness, a crap 20% snare for a 6.0 second cast time which is absolutely terrible all things considered.

[Thulack]

I'd go shaman or druid. Reasons all stated above. Porting especially a full group from place to place for stuff is nice and the utility both add is good.

[Slave]

sneak does nothing for a cleric in group setting

regent symbol effect is clinging darkness, a crap 20% snare for a 6.0 second cast time which is absolutely terrible all things considered.

Ahhh I see the problem now. Unless you're a master troll, in which case I am totally in awe!