Requesting Clarification on RF Turn-in Timer Ruling

[Nordenwatch]

I was told today that it is no longer 20 minutes for the human and then 20 minutes for the dragon, instead its 20 minutes for both human and dragon.

Is this true?

Also, if a group has engaged by the 20 min point but not killed, does it become FFA at that moment or once and if they wipe?

Thanks!

[Slave]

Also, if a group has engaged by the 20 min point but not killed, does it become FFA at that moment or once and if they wipe?



This one is easy: if the group engaged the mob by the 20 minute mark, that mob is theirs by every rule of the server until they die. (Unless they are kiting it around or something similar, to intentionally disrupt the natural order of killing it.)

[kotton05]

Hmm norden I always thought it was 20 mins from turn in.. letting you prep while having the human form kinda snared and running? thats what i've always done. i dont think its 20 mins for both... seems kinda odd you'd get 40 mins of prep time. if i was there and someone was stalling 40 mins i'd get upset..

wiping tho.. think its like wiping on any other mob creating a FFA after the party has wiped.

please correct me if i'm wrong. thats my understanding.

[Handull]

either way, if you engage before the time is up, its not FFA, only once u wipe/disengage. so long as you aren't kiting. FTE rules would still apply

I heard 30min total from someone, but who knows. By the book it should be 20 each, but would need a gm to clarify.

[falkun]

I was told today that it is no longer 20 minutes for the human and then 20 minutes for the dragon, instead its 20 minutes for both human and dragon.

20 min for the human, then another 20 for the dragon as they are independent NPCs. You do not have to kill the mob within the 20 minutes, but you must have engaged the mob within 20 minutes.


Also, if a group has engaged by the 20 min point but not killed, does it become FFA at that moment or once and if they wipe?
You get 1 attempt, and you must engage before the 20 minutes are up. If you initially engaged before the 20 minutes expired, but have not killed it after the 20 minutes are up, the kill is still yours as long as you are still making progress on the mob and not "stalling" in the eyes of GMs.

Applicable raid rules posted below.

Q: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Idol -> Avatar of War), the guild that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild on a first to engage basis once the first guild has either wiped or not engaged within the time limit.
This means that the dragon and human are on seperate 20 minute timers.
Q: What about raid mobs that are spawned by a combination of other mobs?
A: In the case of a raid mob that is spawned by clearing an area (Example: Azarack Island in Plane of Sky), the guild that did the clearing has the same consideration as above; That is, 20 Minutes to engage and 1 attempt. In the case of multiple guilds contributing significantly to the spawn of the mob, the mob is first to engage by any of those guilds.
Just a reminder: If the first guild fails to kill the mob on their first attempt or fails to engage within 20 minutes of the mob's spawntime, the mob's ownership is determind based on the first guild to engage at that point.
This outlines that you get 1 attempt or 20 minutes, whichever occurs first.
Q: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited or occupied?
A: It is against server policy to indefinitely kite, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of bringing it to your raid camp. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stall-kiting of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild, will result in disciplinary actions against the kiter's account, and possibly their raid/guild leadership.
This spells out the GMs stance on "stalling", either through kiting or indefinite tanking. Note that GMs are fairly lenient on indefinite tanking for VS, but tend to take firmer stance on kiting.

[Autotune]

Always thought it was 20mins total.

1st turn in = 20mins to have dragon dead.

Otherwise, why not just tell people they have 40mins... trying to double the time is just to stall imo.

[kotton05]

Always thought it was 20mins total.

1st turn in = 20mins to have dragon dead.

Otherwise, why not just tell people they have 40mins... trying to double the time is just to stall imo.

this^

butttttt

Lets sit and stare at ragefire for 20 more mins just for good measure=-P

clarification would rock but im not changing my 20min from turn in till GM says something

[Ephi]

falkun has this correct.

20 minutes to engage the human after turn-in, then 20 minutes to engage the dragon after he dies. Engage, not kill.

As long as you are making progress on the mob, and not kiting him around, it's fair game. I've watched people trio this encounter. It takes a while, but it's completely legit.

Edit: On a side note, if you suspect someone of stall kiting, or stall tanking, petition. If you kill their mob, or take matters into your own hands in some other way, you'll be suspended for raid interference. Let us police raid mobs, please.

[Nordenwatch]

So if a monk turns in the pearl and FDs for 20 minutes, the mob is FFA? Not making progress on the mob and not kiting it around or stall tanking.

Or would you still have 20 minutes?

[Autotune]

falkun has this correct.

20 minutes to engage the human after turn-in, then 20 minutes to engage the dragon after he dies. Engage, not kill.

As long as you are making progress on the mob, and not kiting him around, it's fair game. I've watched people trio this encounter. It takes a while, but it's completely legit.

Edit: On a side note, if you suspect someone of stall kiting, or stall tanking, petition. If you kill their mob, or take matters into your own hands in some other way, you'll be suspended for raid interference. Let us police raid mobs, please.

so, it is 40 mins to engage the raid target then.

that's kinda silly.

[falkun]

So if a monk turns in the pearl and FDs for 20 minutes, the mob is FFA? Not making progress on the mob and not kiting it around or stall tanking.

Or would you still have 20 minutes?

In that case the monk (nor his party) have not engaged the human Zordrak in 20 minutes and he is FFA. The pearl turn-in gives you twenty minutes to engage for 1 attempt. If time expires or you wipe, its FFA.

[Vandy]

so, it is 40 mins to engage the raid target then.

that's kinda silly.

Not really its 20 Minutes, as the human form is also considered a target.


When you kill the human form then the Dragon spawns its a totally different NPC so you have 20 mins after you spawn the dragon to engage him.

makes sense to me, if you turned in the pearl and it DIRECTLY spawned the dragon then you would have 20 mins total.

[Autotune]

In that case the monk (nor his party) have not engaged the human Zordrak in 20 minutes and he is FFA. The pearl turn-in gives you twenty minutes to engage for 1 attempt. If time expires or you wipe, its FFA.

Turn in, FD, 20mins to engage.

19mins 45secs, engage and kill, FD.

20mins to engage again.

19mins 45secs, engage the dragon.

little redundant.

Not really its 20 Minutes, as the human form is also considered a target.


When you kill the human form then the Dragon spawns its a totally different NPC so you have 20 mins after you spawn the dragon to engage him.

makes sense to me, if you turned in the pearl and it DIRECTLY spawned the dragon then you would have 20 mins total.

You have claim to the raid target when you first turn in.

Not sure why you need 20 mins to engage a non-raid target before engaging your raid target you claimed with the initial turn in.

[Nordenwatch]

In that case the monk (nor his party) have not engaged the human Zordrak in 20 minutes and he is FFA. The pearl turn-in gives you twenty minutes to engage for 1 attempt. If time expires or you wipe, its FFA.

So what you're saying is once you hand in and the monk FDs, you still have 20 minutes to engage the mob from the time of turn in.

Thanks, this clears things up.

[raymor]

i was told by a gm with ss that we had thirty min from time of turn in to down all ragefire forms.

[Metallikus]

i was told by a gm with ss that we had thirty min from time of turn in to down all ragefire forms.

screenshotting gm decisions or posting logs of what gms say has no relevance as was made clear as mud when Sirken stoutly refused to explain what the fuck first to damage means on a Inny engage.

[Vandy]

falkun has this correct.

20 minutes to engage the human after turn-in, then 20 minutes to engage the dragon after he dies. Engage, not kill.

As long as you are making progress on the mob, and not kiting him around, it's fair game. I've watched people trio this encounter. It takes a while, but it's completely legit.

Edit: On a side note, if you suspect someone of stall kiting, or stall tanking, petition. If you kill their mob, or take matters into your own hands in some other way, you'll be suspended for raid interference. Let us police raid mobs, please.

[raymor]

falkun has this correct.

20 minutes to engage the human after turn-in, then 20 minutes to engage the dragon after he dies. Engage, not kill.

As long as you are making progress on the mob, and not kiting him around, it's fair game. I've watched people trio this encounter. It takes a while, but it's completely legit.

Edit: On a side note, if you suspect someone of stall kiting, or stall tanking, petition. If you kill their mob, or take matters into your own hands in some other way, you'll be suspended for raid interference. Let us police raid mobs, please.

i'm gonna get in trouble for this but here go.this is what the problem is on this server the gm's have no idea what the other gm's are telling ppl .. i had ambrotos kick us out of solb after 30 min an was told that 30 min is all you get from turn in to kill...i have also 3 man rage fire an it didn't take 40 min to do it...i understand that the gm's are busy dealing with trains an camp disagreements or raid drama (which happens a lot)...but i would think that at lest you guys talk to each other before hand (but guess not)...another problem i see is the gm's getting muddy in rnf lately..i have seen not only sirken but ephi get down in dirty in rnf (not a way to act if your a person in power)...again this is just my opinion could be wrong .. use a favorite quote of mine can't we all just get along..

[sanluen]

Let's be honest, no one has yet taken 40 minutes (that I have ever seen) or truly intends to.

This just clarifies that indeed if you spawn the human ragefire, you have 20 mintues to finish assembling and preparing your raid force. This should clear up all of the recent confrontations at ragefire that I have seen where two forces are trying to be the first to turn in their pearl, and the other force is applying pressure to kill the human spawn immediately in hopes that they wipe.

[Ephi]

i'm gonna get in trouble for this but here go.this is what the problem is on this server the gm's have no idea what the other gm's are telling ppl .. i had ambrotos kick us out of solb after 30 min an was told that 30 min is all you get from turn in to kill...i have also 3 man rage fire an it didn't take 40 min to do it...i understand that the gm's are busy dealing with trains an camp disagreements or raid drama (which happens a lot)...but i would think that at lest you guys talk to each other before hand (but guess not)...another problem i see is the gm's getting muddy in rnf lately..i have seen not only sirken but ephi get down in dirty in rnf (not a way to act if your a person in power)...again this is just my opinion could be wrong .. use a favorite quote of mine can't we all just get along..

Not sure what you mean by getting down and dirty in RNF, but I have replied there. I'd be interested in what your idea of dirty is. PM me some links of posts you think I should have avoided.

Look guys, the big picture here is: be civil to each other. I know that's a lot easier said than done, but let's try not to run over each other for Ragefires, screw needing people out of epics, and be general loot whores or time masters. If someone turns in a pearl, just give them some time.

If you have an issue, petition. We'll look into it. I've handled a few of these, and they do generally get dealt with.

Just be civil.

[Ele]

Anyone that snipes a Ragefire from a cleric that is genuinely trying to do the quest is a douche and a half.

If it is two or more groups of people fighting over who gets to sell a MQ or hunting for CoFs, then apply the rule as stated by Ephi.

[Ambrotos]

I ruled the way I did during that encounter since you were stalling on the kos human for over 28 mins(between chat logs from both guilds supplied in game). I then gave you 5mins or so to kill it, and down the dragon or lose it. You wiped, and it was awarded to TMO.

Like it was said about treating people.You decided to race ahead and stall the entire thing just to beat tmo. Even half your guild admitted to what a crap move you all tried to pull.

In the end, you stalled, you wiped, tmo got the ragefire.

That's the problem with some people on the server. They think they can try and play loose with the rules, then cry about it when called out on their crap. In hindsight I should have suspended the "raid" leader, and the few others who had little to no self control in response to being called on their bs. It's not about how the GMs rule, it's how the players interact with each other.

[Savok]

Personally I feel that if you spawn a mob from another mob it should be yours period until you give up on it and concede it as an open mob. Be it Zordak or Statue/Idol/Avatar of War once you pop the 2nd mob its yours to so with as you like.

The whole 20 mins thing needs to be for the initial mob only.

[Fazlazen]

Don't go near Ragefire, it has a tendency to get players suspended :(

[Fazlazen]

Personally I feel that if you spawn a mob from another mob it should be yours period until you give up on it and concede it as an open mob. Be it Zordak or Statue/Idol/Avatar of War once you pop the 2nd mob its yours to so with as you like.

The whole 20 mins thing needs to be for the initial mob only.

Fuck people wasting Statues, there has to be some kind of limit

[Autotune]

40 mins to engage your raid target after claiming him is still silly

[Apeople]

So does that mean i can do pearl turn in, snare kite for 19 mins, then engage human form?

[Autotune]

So does that mean i can do pearl turn in, snare kite for 19 mins, then engage human form?

yeah, or just de-aggro him and wait 19-20mins and engage him.

spending 19mins snare kiting could be seen as stalling tho, idk.

[Bamzal Sherbet]

use a favorite quote of mine can't we all just get along..

No. Now go fuck yourself, jack ass.

[Jenni D]

Dayummmm Ambrotozzzz in da hizooozzzz