Grouping with your superiors

[August]

Hey all,

Over the past week or so I've been stuck @ level 54 - slowly grinding out my 1 blue / hr prison sentence. I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that I am just a mere .5 blues from 55! But I digress....

I had an interest in how exp worked and I found this little snippet:

http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mechanics#Experience_Requirement_by_Level

Reading through this it made sense, however it seems to me that from this point forward, I should refuse to group with anyone higher level than me.

Assuming no class/race modifiers, it appears that at around 54.5 you reach half of the exp cap that you will see @ lvl 60. Following the pie analogy established by the wiki, it means that if I were to say, duo with a level 60 (which has been offered to me multiple times), then I would receive only 1/3 of the exp per kill (assuming I am level 54.5). Going further and grouping with 5 level 60s, it appears I would only get 9% of total experience per mob kill. (they each earn 2 parts to my 1, so 1/11).

Does everyone just implicitly understand this and continue on? After being enlightened, it seems I would never want to group with anyone higher level than me. In fact, it appears that this trend probably hurts leveling even more so in the 51+ arena where the modifiers begin to tip up above 1.4 and the base starts rapidly increasing.

Furthermore, wouldn't this imply that those of us with class / race modifiers, assuming we don't solo, actually just hurt everyone around us instead of feeling the pain ourselves? Assuming a hybrid is even level with a group, we have some approximate % more exp gained at that point, thus we get awarded with more exp than everyone else, and detriment those around us compared to say, an even-leveled halfling warrior.

Anyways, just food for thought. I guess my main points are

1) Are you aware of this exp system?
2) Is it accurate?
3) Do people actively avoid grouping with those higher level than them /will you say no to a group offer if there are a lot of higher levels?

I guess in my mind it is desirable to be asked by a bunch of 58+ to group, but ultimately it ends up hurting you - assuming they have a wide grip on you.

Tomtee.

[Itap]

1) Are you aware of this exp system?

Yes, after all, the game is 13 years old

2) Is it accurate?

Yes

3) Do people actively avoid grouping with those higher level than them /will you say no to a group offer if there are a lot of higher levels?

Some classes must group to gain experience. It's also less work to group with people and mash 2 buttons every pull. Plus, some people just like grouping over soloing, regardless of experience penalties. Not everyone is a min/maxer



The journey to 60 is a long one, why not enjoy it, namsayin?

[Tecmos Deception]

Moral of the xp/leveling system on p99 is "beggars can't be choosers."

But to try to answer your questions, yeah most people know how the xp system work, the wiki is correct about how xp works, and while some people might try to avoid grouping with certain levels, it's much more common to see people who refuse to play with hybrids than with someone who is 3 levels higher than they are.

[Tecmos Deception]

The journey to 60 is a long one, why not enjoy it, namsayin?

What do you think he's trying to do?

You people.

[Striiker]

I have never been hung up on worrying over maximizing my XP per kill when grouping. I've seen people who will refuse to group with players that have racial and hybrid experience penalties because they wanted the maximum XP possible per kill. So, Troll Shadowknights were passed on for example (by the group leader at the time).
Where possible, it's better to group with others around your level however you should not be the big limiting factor. I have always grouped with whomever was available to fill out that last slot as long as they got XP and we would get XP and also they had to be of a level sufficient for the zone we were in.
Level 54 really sucks (as you most certainly know). It takes a LOT of XP to get through it. Accept it and just play until you level up. Level 55 XP will go much faster for you. Level 59 is another horrid level. Once you hit 59, just ignore your XP bar :-)..

To answer your questions directly.. I think that many are aware of how the XP system works on this server to a limited extent. They probably understand the basics of hell levels and XP penalties. The XP system is an accurate representation of how this all worked back in 1999 / 2000.. Regarding saying no to a grouping opportunity if full of high levels.. I never did. XP was slower but at least I was grouped and having fun. Sitting around LFG pulls in far less XP and is boring..

[theaetatus]

A group with 5 lvl 60s in rather than 5 lvl 54s is probably going to kill twice as quickly as least, so as long as you don't run out of mobs this shouldn't be an issue.

[Itap]

What do you think he's trying to do?

You people.

Point made was have fun, not worry about how much % each kill he's gaining.

[Tecmos Deception]

Point made was have fun, not worry about how much % each kill he's gaining.

Point was missed that maybe how much % each kill he's gaining IS what is fun for him.

[Thulack]

I'm 54 and would gladly take a group with 5 level 60's. Gonna kill alot quicker to make up for the lower xp. Faster killing=more xp and more chances at loot.

[Itap]

How the fuck is that fun

[August]

Point made was have fun, not worry about how much % each kill he's gaining.

People have fun in different ways. I am a mathematician / developer by trade and this just stuck out to me as odd.

I only ponder it because of the extreme amount of time I've spent in 54 and I wanted to look @ the math behind it.

It just seems odd to me that you are heavily penalized by grouping with someone 6 levels higher than you. This is mainly due to the modifier shifting per LEVEL in 50+.

At levels 1-30 you are only seeing a 1.0 modifier so you can view your percentage of the pie as my level / total levels.

For instance, a 24 and a 30 can group, and the 24 gets 24/54 of the exp, or about 44% of the exp per kill.

At 54.5 and 60, you are receiving 33% of the kill. As you level, level discrepancies matter much more, however the range of levels you can group with also greatly expand.

Oh, to be a coder in 1997!

(Oh and I AM enjoying my leveling tract, btw!)

[Lonetree]

Way i look at it is grouping with that group of 60s you mention just earns more pie to compensate for the other 10/11ths you mention dragging you down. This is in two ways, more pies, the 60s will hit harder, take less damage etc. Killing more mobs faster. 2nd, bigger pies, you can go to higher mobs that give more exp. Overall ive been happy with this balance enough to not factor it unless the person of higher level is sooo much higher than the mobs we face that their benifits saturate. Interesting discussion point thou, thx.

[August]

A group with 5 lvl 60s in rather than 5 lvl 54s is probably going to kill twice as quickly as least, so as long as you don't run out of mobs this shouldn't be an issue.

I think the difference here is that a group of 5 level 60s could do juggs while 5 lvl 54s would probably wipe.

My main worry / detriment comes in when you're talking about the LCY camp in KC. I know KC sucks ass but let me use it for illustration.

If I am in LCY I am certainly charming, and my dps will make up quite a bit of group dps. We have the choice of replacing our puller with either a 59 ranger or a 52 monk. Neither character is going to contribute much besides chain pulling. The 59 ranger will put a huge (assuming im 54 in this scenario) damper on my total exp, while the 52 monk will actually boost it.

I am therefore required to think that rangers are only good for taking harmtouch.

[Itap]

I see.

It is very well known classic EQ grinding is terrible. This was revamped several times by SOE in later years, but this server won't see any until Velious (removing class/race xp penalties).

[August]

Way i look at it is grouping with that group of 60s you mention just earns more pie to compensate for the other 10/11ths you mention dragging you down. This is in two ways, more pies, the 60s will hit harder, take less damage etc. Killing more mobs faster. 2nd, bigger pies, you can go to higher mobs that give more exp. Overall ive been happy with this balance enough to not factor it unless the person of higher level is sooo much higher than the mobs we face that their benifits saturate. Interesting discussion point thou, thx.

I agree with the balancing issue however with the zones populated the way they are, often times we are constrained by the amount of mobs available to a camp.

I noticed this mainly when camping crypt in seb with a bunch of 55s versus a group of 4 60s, myself, and a 54 cleric. I got a considerable amount more exp with the 55s than the 60s, and killed the same set of mobs.

This rings true for pretty much every heavily contested camp, I believe. Just an interesting facet of the game I hadn't considered until now.

[August]

I see.

It is very well known classic EQ grinding is terrible. This was revamped several times by SOE in later years, but this server won't see any until Velious (removing class/race xp penalties).

Probably the reason I only made it to level 34 my first play thru :).

[Tecmos Deception]

Nah. Just because a ranger isn't the ideal addition to that group doesn't mean they're meaningless. If you reversed the levels, the monk would be chain pulling and doing little damage while the ranger would be chain pulling and doing little damage... but soaking up less xp. But you wouldn't say that monks are only good for taking DTs just because a 59 monk isn't a good addition to your group in terms of your personal xp speed, would you?

Oh, and don't forget that an iksar monk actually has a worse xp penalty than a ranger does.

[Itap]

Probably the reason I only made it to level 34 my first play thru :).

Haha. Btw you are 100% correct. I think the issue is really the availability of classes all lfg in your level range. I think you just kinda take what you can get lol

[Tecmos Deception]

OP is a necro or an enchanter, based on his comment about charming. Imo you should look into small groups instead of larger ones, unless you really love the large group dynamic (whatever that means).

An enchanter and a cleric can kill 1/2 as many mobs as a typical group of 6 can, but without having to split the loot 6 ways and the xp even thinner than that. Plus you won't be "carrying" any wizards or AFKers or anything ;)

At the very least try trioing with a cle/sham + yourself + another charmer/pet class.

[August]

I am enchanter! I love to duo but I prefer shaman for malo :)

So I'll use this as a stage. If you have HS key and are a shaman, I would love to duo with you!

Tomtee <54.94 enc>

[Tecmos Deception]

Shamans are swell, but until they have torpor I personally WAY prefer a cleric for the CH + superior HP buffs :)

[Elements]

Hey all,

Over the past week or so I've been stuck @ level 54 - slowly grinding out my 1 blue / hr prison sentence. I'm sure you'll all be happy to know that I am just a mere .5 blues from 55! But I digress....

I had an interest in how exp worked and I found this little snippet:

http://wiki.project1999.org/Game_Mechanics#Experience_Requirement_by_Level

Reading through this it made sense, however it seems to me that from this point forward, I should refuse to group with anyone higher level than me.

Assuming no class/race modifiers, it appears that at around 54.5 you reach half of the exp cap that you will see @ lvl 60. Following the pie analogy established by the wiki, it means that if I were to say, duo with a level 60 (which has been offered to me multiple times), then I would receive only 1/3 of the exp per kill (assuming I am level 54.5). Going further and grouping with 5 level 60s, it appears I would only get 9% of total experience per mob kill. (they each earn 2 parts to my 1, so 1/11).

Does everyone just implicitly understand this and continue on? After being enlightened, it seems I would never want to group with anyone higher level than me. In fact, it appears that this trend probably hurts leveling even more so in the 51+ arena where the modifiers begin to tip up above 1.4 and the base starts rapidly increasing.

Furthermore, wouldn't this imply that those of us with class / race modifiers, assuming we don't solo, actually just hurt everyone around us instead of feeling the pain ourselves? Assuming a hybrid is even level with a group, we have some approximate % more exp gained at that point, thus we get awarded with more exp than everyone else, and detriment those around us compared to say, an even-leveled halfling warrior.

Anyways, just food for thought. I guess my main points are

1) Are you aware of this exp system?
2) Is it accurate?
3) Do people actively avoid grouping with those higher level than them /will you say no to a group offer if there are a lot of higher levels?

I guess in my mind it is desirable to be asked by a bunch of 58+ to group, but ultimately it ends up hurting you - assuming they have a wide grip on you.

Tomtee.

Your group should consist of a halfling warrior, a halfling cleric, an enchanter, and 3 halfling rogues all the same level.

[Faron]

Clicked this thread thinking it was going to be stories about grouping with uppity raiders.

[Itap]

Your group should consist of a halfling warrior, a halfling cleric, an enchanter, and 3 halfling rogues all the same level.

/thread