What do they expect?

[sonbrodersen]

Why is it that I always see red players referring to us blue players as and I quote "sub par" "blubies" "pussies", but then only minutes later they beg us to go redisde to save their dwindling population. They insult us, then ask us to help them. I considered going red for a while, but after I saw how offensive and trollish their players are I have decided against it. It's like slapping someone in the face, and then asking them to share their lunch with you. What do they expect us to do?

[Massive Marc]

Sounds like you take this Everquest biz pretty serious.

[Ele]

You've stumbled upon the reason red's population is 1/10 that of blue.

[sonbrodersen]

Sounds like you take this Everquest biz pretty serious.

No I'm not angry about it if that's how you took it. I just don't understand how people can be so desperate, yet so rude.

[August]

Here comes Massive Marc to act tough again! I made this point yesterday on a thread asking people to come to red and had a poor attempt at flaming made by our muscular friend.

OP speaks truth.

[Itap]

fortunately the majority of the forum posters you see don't even actually play on red.

Don't get trolled on the forums before you actually even roll a character.

If you're that sensitive on ForumQuest, red might not be for you...

[stormlord]

Well honestly on pvp servers you have to contend with other players not just monsters. So it's tougher. People that play on pvp servers for long periods soon become attached to it and when they go to blue servers they just don't get the same reward from it, since the danger is lower. You have to understand that this gap between blue and red builds over time. Soon reds look at blues as though they can't take a beating. And you know where that goes.... It all stems from a different tolerance for danger and reward.

The problem with the red server and others like it is they don't give players a chance to play safely. No open world pvp ever works for very long unless it has some safe zones and control measures applied to griefing. The problem is that some pvpers tend to prefer open world pvp BECAUSE of the griefing. Maybe that's how they played for a long time on a open world pvp server so that's what they expect in any game they play. But the end result of all this is that these pvp players that want the ability to grief will never be happy because the servers they do get to play on will always have small populations that bleed until they're on life support.

I'm not speaking from inexperience. I played on Sullon Zek for a long while. I loved it. I'm a player that loves danger. However, I believe that no open world pvp can exist long without control measures to restrict griefing and to allow players to focus most or all of their time solely on pve if that's what they want. I do believe the biggest challenge should be in contested areas where pvp can occur, but I also think that the best items should be a combination of pve and pvp. This means that pve players can combine what they do with pvp players in hte market. At no point should one or the other dominate. Instead they should compliment each other. So for example if I loot a Shield of Hazing Light in a contested dungeon then I can improve it if I combine it with an item that's acquired in a non-contested zone. This can be done directly or in the markets.

[sonbrodersen]

fortunately the majority of the forum posters you see don't even actually play on red.

Don't get trolled on the forums before you actually even roll a character.

If you're that sensitive on ForumQuest, red might not be for you...

Let me rephrase what I said, I wasn't offended by what they say exactly, but I sure as hell don't feel like dealing with the griefing and the trolling. I have never done pvp in EQ, and I would like to try, but all I ever hear are horror stories of greifing and that does not sound desirable.

[Itap]

Let me rephrase what I said, I wasn't offended by what they say exactly, but I sure as hell don't feel like dealing with the griefing and the trolling. I have never done pvp in EQ, and I would like to try, but all I ever hear are horror stories of greifing and that does not sound desirable.

There is no widespread griefing anymore, its the opposite actually. I have a character on red that will remain unknown and everyone was really nice (giving buffs, some items, ect).

Just don't say youre going to be the next nilly recruit and youll enjoy it ;)

[Autotune]

Let me put it in the best light possible.

The majority of people despise or hate me on blue, but they will play with me.

I won't even play on red because of the way they act.

There ya go.

[Hugmukk]

Not to mention EQ's PVP is so lopsided, I will always play a melee character that is what I like. How do you think warriors and monks fair alone on a PVP server ritled with necros, enchanters, shadowknights, paladins, clerics, ect. ect.

I also agree with OP, I don't think insulting the other 2/3 of the classic eq community is an effective way to recruit. Good job red, you have sufficiently alienated yourselves from the rest of us.

[Thulack]

I started a toon on red. Met a nice pally in CB hooked me up with leather then when i dinged 6 i was fighting and had to zone a few mobs and someone was sitting at zone in. i stopped to tell them to zone out and they preceeded to nuke me. i zoned out. They zoned through rooted/killed me then preceeded to sit on my level 6 corpse with a higher member of nilly sitting right next to them. I ran past zoned into CB and camped out. came back an hour later and got corpse then logged out. Red was fun for about 3 hours.

Edit:Kim also hooked me up with some pearls that i sold for plat and the guy took that too.(yeah yeah forgot about coin looting as my intention on red was to just mess around and laugh at /ooc.)

[LizardNecro]

A lot of what Stormlord said regarding zone control is correct.

Sullon Zek had hard coded teams, and while that's not hard coded zone control, it gave each team a place to level up in moderate peace, because griefers would run into a lot of opposition. It also gave people a reason to group together, and form loyal ties. If you run into people from your team out in the world, you *know* they are on your side. On an open pvp server, every stranger might kill you or might help you. It fosters uncertainty.

I'd have played on red if there were hard coded teams and no level ranges (You can't ever, ever allow people to help in pvp without being pvp targets themselves: this is why the tz/vz ruleset didn't work, because of crossteam healing and immortal healing).

The current red rules simply don't foster a friendly environment. A good pvp experience is very ruleset dependent.

[stormlord]

A lot of what Stormlord said regarding zone control is correct.

Sullon Zek had hard coded teams, and while that's not hard coded zone control, it gave each team a place to level up in moderate peace, because griefers would run into a lot of opposition. It also gave people a reason to group together, and form loyal ties. If you run into people from your team out in the world, you *know* they are on your side. On an open pvp server, every stranger might kill you or might help you. It fosters uncertainty.

I'd have played on red if there were hard coded teams and no level ranges (You can't ever, ever allow people to help in pvp without being pvp targets themselves: this is why the tz/vz ruleset didn't work, because of crossteam healing and immortal healing).

The current red rules simply don't foster a friendly environment. A good pvp experience is very ruleset dependent.
Your point is good and I understand, but what I was really meaning were safe zones that have a NO-PVP flag and this would be true all the way to max level. And pvp/pve purists would be complimentary. But what you say is still mostly true. Sullon Zek probably would have had a higher population than rallos zek if it had had a level limit. Bare in mind that Rallos Zek didn't have teams and had a level restriction. You're right that being able to attack anybody of any level meant that in certain circumstances you could kill someone who was buffing or healing your opponent. However, no level limit also means that a max level player can kill you with no chance of you winning. Higher levels will decimate lower levels without recourse with no level limit in place. In fact, I witnessed this many times when high levels would run through low level zones and cut down new players.

I'm agreeing and disagreeing. FFA PVP, even when it's restricted to teams, is detrimental to population. A game that has contested open pvp areas needs safe zones so pve purists can play. And this should be true for all level ranges. Otherwise, you force everyone to get mixed up in it. It hurts population. You need to understand that the list of mmorpgs that have ffa open pvp is very small; and again usually only on special ruleset servers. The number of restricted ffa open pvp servers is fairly long. This is because they're more friendly to pve.

Pve purists are like a huge shot in the arm for pvp rulesets. They're worth the compromise.

[fishingme]

Let me put it in the best light possible.

The majority of people despise or hate me on blue, but they will play with me.

I won't even play on red because of the way they act.

There ya go.

You barely act differently from red players, shocked that you can't see it. I think the only thing you're missing is calling everyone on blue "bluebies."



I don't hate you. But I still won't play with you because of the amount of blowing & sucking you do

[Autotune]

You barely act differently from red players, shocked that you can't see it. I think the only thing you're missing is calling everyone on blue "bluebies."



I don't hate you. But I still won't play with you because of the amount of blowing & sucking you do

Sad thing is, you're far more like them than I am.

[fishingme]

Sad thing is, you're far more like them than I am.

Pass the bong bro, go look at your post history.

[mwatt]

A couple of things are obvious if you think about them even a little bit:
1) PVP servers tend to accumulate a group of people that are less senstive to their own pain and far less sensitive to the pain and discomfort of others than the people on PVE servers.
2) PVP servers actually attract people that LIKE causing other people discomfort and pain.

These two facts contribute to a more callous, brutish experience. I'm not saying that every PVP player is a callous, aberant sadist. Assuredly most of them are not. But it doesn't take a high percentage of people like that to totally discolor the experience.

In any event, PVP EQ is simply not PVE EQ. Many of us PVE EQ players consider EQ to be the pinnacle of MMOs and would not want to play anything less.

[Autotune]

Pass the bong bro, go look at your post history.

you should look at the average red player base post history and your own.

I'm sure you'll find enough hatred of the top end guild and tin foil to start a club together.

[Splorf22]

Agree with most of the non-troll comments. It would be interesting perhaps to try a hybrid approach, for example guktop would be PVE and unrest would be PVP with a +50% zem, something like that.

[fishingme]

you should look at the average red player base post history and your own.

I'm sure you'll find enough hatred of the top end guild and tin foil to start a club together.

Ohhh baby, start the insults. I don't hate TMO or any endgame guild in the past or present. Ill shine my two cents when a random thread pops up that is at least semi-interesting but that again, isn't often, and definitely not as often as you do. I'm curious, do you even play the game anymore and I'm not talking about just logging in for dragons

[Kraftwerk]

If you decide to play on Red let me know. I'll give you 200p to help you buy spells and get on your feet and going.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

typical carebear titty whining from "wah no one is holding my hand I'm afraid" PvE player.

you should definately check out red99 dude

[Dark Team]

Why is it that I always see red players referring to us blue players as and I quote "sub par" "blubies" "pussies"

I don't remember doing that. Come play red; PvP is fun.

[Aandolaf]

Its not very fair to judge the whole pvp community by the loudest and most obnoxious stereotypicalloudpvpdouchbags. Yes there are a lot of these types on the red server, and there are also a lot of decent people. In fact, you are doing the same thing they are doing by saying all red players are this and that.

The pvp server can be very fun and rewarding, even for new players. Have had plenty of people buff/give items/bind etc. Sometimes you just have to make it fun on your own terms. Can click down there for some grand ol pvp adventures!

[sonbrodersen]

I guess what I would like is a somewhat friendly pvp system. I know that is really outrageous because pvp is pvp, but if people would just kill you fairly and move on, it would be great fun and I would love to stay. Instead all I hear is "so and so griefed my corpse for days, "or "This entire guild has my body camped" Or "so and so has been griefing me in the newbie zone for days" That does not sound fun at all. I will never understand how grown ass men can do this, and then be surprised that their server has a falling population.

[Autotune]

Ohhh baby, start the insults. I don't hate TMO or any endgame guild in the past or present. Ill shine my two cents when a random thread pops up that is at least semi-interesting but that again, isn't often, and definitely not as often as you do. I'm curious, do you even play the game anymore and I'm not talking about just logging in for dragons

You barely act differently from red players, shocked that you can't see it. I think the only thing you're missing is calling everyone on blue "bluebies."



I don't hate you. But I still won't play with you because of the amount of blowing & sucking you do


You already started... and yet, you want to label me as the 'asshole'.

Also, yea, I've been playing pretty often the past few weeks.

[Slave]

typical carebear titty whining from "wah no one is holding my hand I'm afraid" PvE player.

you should definately check out red99 dude

One of the few non-awesome posts I have seen from this account. I expect more, sir.

[webrunner5]

Yeah lets all go back to Red again and get Butt raped and called ***** all day. And even their posts on here tell you what life is like with them losers. Sounds like fun. Sort of like a sharp stick in the eye does. Ohh what fun. Pass. Been there done that.

There is a reason there is like 25 people play on Red. Just go away and stay on Red and in RnF. You all deserve each other.

[Swish]

Unless Piffen came back to play EQ, I think we can be fairly sure R99 has no black players on it... yet...

http://i.imgur.com/zqhnZaq.jpg

Thug life not for everyone I guess...

[Bamzal Sherbet]

A lot of what Stormlord said regarding zone control is correct.

Sullon Zek had hard coded teams, and while that's not hard coded zone control, it gave each team a place to level up in moderate peace, because griefers would run into a lot of opposition. It also gave people a reason to group together, and form loyal ties. If you run into people from your team out in the world, you *know* they are on your side. On an open pvp server, every stranger might kill you or might help you. It fosters uncertainty.

I'd have played on red if there were hard coded teams and no level ranges (You can't ever, ever allow people to help in pvp without being pvp targets themselves: this is why the tz/vz ruleset didn't work, because of crossteam healing and immortal healing).

The current red rules simply don't foster a friendly environment. A good pvp experience is very ruleset dependent.


this one had me lollin