Enchanter or Magician

[Dezik]

Hey all!

So after trying out Guild Wars 2 I have come to the realization that P99 is still the best place to be for me and my MMO addiction lol. Something about the lore, atmosphere and general layout of the game is still, imo, the best there is. So I am back!!

Anyways, yes, this is another "so help me pick a class" thread. I realize these come up a lot and so I apologize in advance. My question is between what I "think" I have it narrowed down, Enchanter or Magician, although I am willing to accept alternatives given my play style if anyone wants to offer one up.

What I am looking for is a class that can operate on its own if need be, does well in a group (doesn't need to be 100% required) and can be a Dark Elf :). What I have it narrowed down to is the two mentioned above. Can anyone give me the pro's and con's to each? I understand Enchanters are awsome and needed in groups and have a great solo capability with charm. My only concern is 1) raid effectiveness and 2) Never played an enchanter and don't want to make stupid, group wiping mistakes. I love the idea of the magician, however my concern here is 1) pet taking exp making gimick moves like pet kiting a necessity and 2) not exactly group or raid friendly end game.

Anyways, sorry for the long post. If any high level enchanters or magicians, or anyone with knowledge of the class wants to weigh in on what they would choose and why I would be greatly appreciative.

Thanks!

[Kritimus]

Best advice I can give is play the class that interests you for the ride to 60. If you play something because you want to be effective on raids, you may not necessarily enjoy the ride. And we all know, its a hell of a ride.

[formallydickman]

This is one man's opinion of the pro's and con's you might consider looking at.

http://wiki.project1999.org/Loraen%27s_Class_Selection_Guide

[Dezik]

Best advice I can give is play the class that interests you for the ride to 60. If you play something because you want to be effective on raids, you may not necessarily enjoy the ride. And we all know, its a hell of a ride.

Thank you for the quick reply. I completely agree and would never pick a class soley because of its effectiveness on raids. I am much more interested in the general playstyle of the class which is why I am posting here. I have never played a Magician nor an Enchanter, however, I feel these would work well for me given my need for solo'ing as I have a somewhat busy work schedule during the week which may not coincide well with normal grouping hours. I am mostly looking for feedback on what I can expect from each of these classes in the way of ease of solo'ing, grouping, and eventually raiding.

[Silo69]

there are as many mages as rangers around here... so very very low

but dat there epic pet... OHHHHHHH MYYYY GUUUUUUUUUUUUUSHHHHHH!!!

/gg

if i could do it all over again, id make a mage, main it, and never look back, truck hard and when you get there,

/jelly

[Dezik]

lol? Thanks for the post but im not really basing this decision off my epic pet alone. While I do think the idea of a magician is awsome, I don't really like the idea of my pet taking half the experience whenever I solo unless I do a formulated set of pet kiting every time.

[Slave]

Speaking towards races, I believe that Dark Elves are the most powerful and useful Enchanters and Magicians both, just due to Hide. It's pretty hard to make a case for any other race regarding these classes.

Enchanter = put all points into Charisma that you can at character generation
Magician = all points into Strength? Whatever, really.

[formallydickman]

Magician = all points into Strength? Whatever, really.

Oh how I wish I'd have done so.

[Slave]

Oh how I wish I'd have done so.

What a lot of people don't take into account is that your most important statistic is often Run Speed.

[Groo]

Enchanter is more challenging, more versatile, and more demanding of your attention. When grouped, others will rely on you more, and expect more out of you. You're going to have a much easier time finding and forming pick-up groups. You will make mistakes, and have some bad luck and get flattened sometimes.

I tend to get bored with soloing, and I like the enchanter's wide range of abilities. People are very selective with who they choose to group with, these days. I haven't played a magician on this server, but when my groups are looking for damage output, they might pick another class before looking for a magician. Also, I can see myself getting bored with the magician's abilities and narrower role in groups. I would go with enchanter as my main, and maybe consider magician as an alternate.

[ManticSquee]

Oh how I wish I'd have done so.

I will be starting on the server in a few days and rolling a mage. It looks like at least a few people would prefer putting starting points into strength instead of intelligence. I would assume because there isn't a lot of caster gear that raises strength later on?

[Slave]

I will be starting on the server in a few days and rolling a mage. It looks like at least a few people would prefer putting starting points into strength instead of intelligence. I would assume because there isn't a lot of caster gear that raises strength later on?

It's just that maximum mana doesn't do very much at all for you as a Magician. And Strength at least lets you carry around more treasure without having to summon the DEVIL BAGS OF DEATH. NEVER SUMMON THEM!!!

Still, Intelligence will be better for the majority of people who don't min/max, I'd say.

[Zallar]

As an enchanter, you are 100% engaged during game play. Peel your eyes away for a moment and that's when Charm will break and wipe the group, or when that short mez will break and wipe the group, or you miss the stun on that runner and wipe the group, etc. You get the idea.

Enchanters are super powerful but require focus. If you're going to play a lazy enchanter and require the root classes to CC, keep your animation up, and consider yourself a buff bot, then you're aren't going to appreciate the nuances of the class.

If you're willing to pay attention and push yourself, you can really accomplish some awesome things. Enchanters make good pullers as well as crowd control.

[Vladesch]

Dark elves aren't as good as high elves for charming because of the lower charisma.
(Hide is nice though i admit)
Charm solo you really need jboots.

Necro is worth considering. Much easier to solo.

[webrunner5]

When you get really high up on a Mage it is easy mode to just send your Earth pet in on loot camps and go get a beer or smoke a Cig and come back and the whole camp is dead. Pretty sweet.

[Tecmos Deception]

My only concern is 1) raid effectiveness and 2) Never played an enchanter and don't want to make stupid, group wiping mistakes. I love the idea of the magician, however my concern here is 1) pet taking exp making gimick moves like pet kiting a necessity and 2) not exactly group or raid friendly end game.

You shouldn't be concerned with "raid effectiveness" of enchanters. The raiding that most people on p99 are part of are planes raids, and those tend to have plenty of chances for an enchanter to CC, charm, land spells, etc. Killing gods/dragons means an enchanter is doing more buffing and less of everything else, but everyone still wants a couple enchanters around for these fights.

And regarding wiping your group by making mistakes? Eh. It's part of the class. If you're in a situation where a mistake by you wipes your group, then your group already was doing something wrong... like pulling too much or too fast or something. Think of it more as a chance to save your group from a wipe, not a chance to cause your group TO wipe.


I don't really understand what you're asking about magicians. Pet kiting? A sentence that makes no sense? I'm confused.

Mages can get full xp for kills, while solo, without a lot of extra work. Just relcaim pet when the monster (preferably one that will flee at low live) is low, finish him with an appropriately-strong nuke, and repeat. And mages are a just-fine addition to groups. They are underrated for them, imo, because people see the damage a pet is doing but don't see how much damage a mage contributes via damage shields and nukes and proccing summoned weapons. A good mage also can contribute in other ways... mod rods, call of the hero, stuff like that at the right time makes a big difference.

[Splorf22]

I played a Mage on live and always thought I was a bit overpowered. Mages can do a lot of damage in groups. Lets add it up:

Burnt Wood Staff: 25 dps forever (cinder bolt clicky. It's mindboggling to me that wizards don't get a clicky until VP)
Backstabbing Water Pet: 30-40 dps (especially if the tank is smart enough to position the pet, usually not)
Damage shield 33/round = 5-10 dps or so while fighting unslowed noncasting mobs

So thats 65-70 dps . . . nothing to be ashamed of even compared to an epic rogue, and we haven't even considered the mage actually casting nukes. On top of that mages bring some nice utility (summoned shuriken/bandages/food/water/levitation rings/mod rods, call of the hero, malo on tough mobs/enchanter charmed pets).

All in all I think mages are a pretty strong class, they are just kind of blunt. You won't be doing much other than /assist, /pet attack, and /cast nuke 1 in groups. No root especially really hurts the class.

[Slave]

Burnt Wood Staff: 25 dps forever (cinder bolt clicky. It's mindboggling to me that

Still broken. The bolts travel at a crawl, and you cannot initiate another bolt until the first one has hit, or it will disappear. I'd say it's less than half its listed dps over any kind of normal use.

[Slave]

High elves aren't as good as dark elves for anything because of the lack of Hide.
(Hide is REALLY REALLY REALLY nice i admit)


All fixed up. :D

[Dezik]

Thanks for the replies guys! Exactly what I was looking for.

So the consensus seems to be that "don't worry about raid effectiveness" as it is the journey not the end, and both mages and enc's have their place in raids anyways. Also, is it as easy as one poster said for mages to get full exp on kills without pets taking half? Seems like an awful lot of mana to keep conjuring new pets after every kill as well as a lot of regeants is it not?

Thank you for the suggestion of Necro as well. I had considered that, and still might, I just didn't like the idea that there are so many of them around it seems and also I have never seen them as very "group" friendly, although I also understand they CAN bring a lot to the table.

[Vladesch]

Hide is not *that* amazing because your hide skill is capped fairly low and it will usually take you a few attempts for a succesful hide, which will waste a significant amount of time overall considering its slowish cooldown.

Personally I'd sooner have the extra charisma and not be rooting around with an unreliable hide skill. The extra spell slot is nice but not essential.

[Splorf22]

Nah I would definitely trade 20 stat points on Loraen (well int stat points anyway) for hide.

1) You can use hide until you get a goblin ring
2) After you get a goblin ring, you can use hide first and then swap in the ring if it doesn't work
3) Hide is fantastic for going AFK

[Grimmly Fireforge]

Don't be a Dark Elf for Hide, and I'll tell you why.

People vastly exaggerate the hide racial ability's utility. First of all, I have it on my Dark Elf too and it's skill is like 50 and will never level up, meaning it works maybe 30% of the time at best. The other 70% of the time your "Hide" attempt will fail, and you will have to wait 8-10 seconds for the cooldown to try to break the charm again.

Does this sound like a reliable way to break a charm? HELL no. People try to act like it has a 100% success rate when really, it's terrible and you're a million times better off getting a Goblin Ring if you can afford it, because it has a 100% success rate and is instant, with no cooldown.

I will admit is is great for going AFK, though.

[Tecmos Deception]

Racial hide is a great thing to have on a mage, and anyone who says otherwise is probably ignoring the fact that there is basically no opportunity cost to having hide and/or not thinking of the different ways it can be used.

It's not like a shaman deciding between troll for regen or ogre for stun immune. In that situation, it is clear that either ability would be nice to have, but unclear which is superior overall. Here we are talking about picking a race with acceptable stats but no hide and a race with acceptable stats AND hide.

Unless someone specifically does not want to be a dark elf, there is no good reason not to be one.


And as to how effective hide really is when you do have it? Hide is a 1 in 3 chance to avoid a train that suddenly is about to run you over. Hide is a few button clicks to give you a 99.9% safe AFK of any length. Hide is an instant 1 in 3 chance of avoiding aggro after logging into an unsafe place after a LD or something so you can consider your options. And did I mention you basically get it for free?

[Ephirith]

Don't be a Dark Elf for Hide, and I'll tell you why.

People vastly exaggerate the hide racial ability's utility. First of all, I have it on my Dark Elf too and it's skill is like 50 and will never level up, meaning it works maybe 30% of the time at best. The other 70% of the time your "Hide" attempt will fail, and you will have to wait 8-10 seconds for the cooldown to try to break the charm again.

Does this sound like a reliable way to break a charm? HELL no. People try to act like it has a 100% success rate when really, it's terrible and you're a million times better off getting a Goblin Ring if you can afford it, because it has a 100% success rate and is instant, with no cooldown.

I will admit is is great for going AFK, though.

Actually I think 50 skill in hide translates to 50% success rate.

Hide is amazing. As was mentioned above, if it doesn't work use something else like an invis ring. If it does work, you've just saved yourself some mana/trouble.

Incredibly useful for going afk, ducking away from an incoming train or wipe pull, etc.

Even if you make the argument hide is only marginally useful, it's not like other races have their own abilities to compete with it.

I'd recommend enchanter. Incredibly powerful class... versatile, great solo, great grouping, amazing dps, amazing utility.

[Grimmly Fireforge]

You keep saying just use Goblin Ring if it fails -- you could just use Goblin Ring as a non-Dark Elf the first time, which would instantly break charm 100% of the time for 0 mana. Having to own a Goblin Ring so you can swap it in defeats the whole purpose. I'll admit that it's not like you have anything to lose by going Dark Elf for it if you're neutral about what race to be, but don't pick Dark Elf just for hide if you like another race better. People exaggerate it's utility and it's not reliable for breaking charm.

[Slave]

People exaggerate it's utility

I think that with disingenuous posts like this, even after the poster listened to about 5x level 60s in here wax rhapsodic about Hide, it's impossible to exaggerate its utility.

[Grimmly Fireforge]

I think you need to calm down, lol.

[webrunner5]

What is with all this end game I want to be good in a Raid crap?? Have 10% of you on here ever been in a Raid on here?? Most people that go on a raid and I mean most will just be sitting up on the hill or at the back wall in a non XP group, IF they are lucky to even be in a group, and sit there with their thumbs up their ass for like 3 hours. Any Maybe and I mean maybe get a chance to get a nice item but don't hold your breath. Silly just silly.

[Tecmos Deception]

You're raiding with the wrong people, web, if that is what has happened in your raiding experience.

[Salerno]

If you go Enchanter, make sure you go Agnostic.

[webrunner5]

You're raiding with the wrong people, web, if that is what has happened in your raiding experience.

Everyone can't be in a XP group in a Raid! And I know it depends on how many are there but you can't risk lower level players trying to cast on high level mobs so they are just out for the reason they are too low. Remember you only have to be level 46 to raid. You telling me the Raid leader is going to put a 46 in a XP group to try and Tank or Cast spells on a Raid mob. You know better than that Tec. Your a smart guy.

Down the road you will get your turn if you are very active in Raiding but not all are and peeps sit on the hill. Fact.

[Arclyte]

EQ is a very easy and simple game, no class is going to be very complex (except maybe bard), so choosing a class that you're going to enjoy and stick with relies a lot on the roleplay aspect of your character

Do you like the thought of commanding an awesome pet and having big nukes and the best damage shields? Or do you like the thought of controlling the minds of everyone around you, making enemies useless and your groupmates awesome?

I found I kind of have to get into the character to stick with it. I always liked being the guy in full plate armor who's kind of a master of all weapons, so I'm playing a warrior atm. This is a 13 year old game, if you agonize over every little pro or con then I think you're in the wrong frame of mind.

[Dezik]

EQ is a very easy and simple game, no class is going to be very complex (except maybe bard), so choosing a class that you're going to enjoy and stick with relies a lot on the roleplay aspect of your character

Do you like the thought of commanding an awesome pet and having big nukes and the best damage shields? Or do you like the thought of controlling the minds of everyone around you, making enemies useless and your groupmates awesome?

I found I kind of have to get into the character to stick with it. I always liked being the guy in full plate armor who's kind of a master of all weapons, so I'm playing a warrior atm. This is a 13 year old game, if you agonize over every little pro or con then I think you're in the wrong frame of mind.

Thank you for that, I completely agree. I guess my point in creating this thread was to try and figure out which sounds more cool to me both in terms of gameplay and roleplay. It's been a while since I took a serious shot at playing EQ so I am just trying to recall what each class is about during their respective journey's to 60.

It is a tough choice i'll admit. But it seems like both will be good for what Im looking for. My ideal play session would be grouping but with my work schedule I know i'll be forced to solo and it sounds like both classes can do this quite well (albeit needing to perform some tricks like charming or reclaiming pets over and over). Guess I can't go wrong with either, but thank you all for your input, it has been very helpful.

[Arclyte]

I haven't played Enc, but I have leveled up 2 mages, and I will say that it is a very hands-off straight forward class.

In a good group with constant pulls, you will basically be DSing the tank and pressing Pet Attack, with the odd nuke every now and then. It's about 2-3 key presses every pull, the rest of the time you're medding.

But again I liked the idea of controlling the game's strongest pet. The damage you put out between nukes/pet/DS is pretty damn good too. The 50% pet penalty isn't as bad as it sounds, since you solo so well.

Enchanter is a lot more dangerous and requires you to really pay attention, but I'd say it's also more rewarding. A group with an enchanter is always going to do very well, but a group looking for dps will never turn away a mage.

[Auvdar]

Everyone can't be in a XP group in a Raid! And I know it depends on how many are there but you can't risk lower level players trying to cast on high level mobs so they are just out for the reason they are too low. Remember you only have to be level 46 to raid. You telling me the Raid leader is going to put a 46 in a XP group to try and Tank or Cast spells on a Raid mob. You know better than that Tec. Your a smart guy.

Down the road you will get your turn if you are very active in Raiding but not all are and peeps sit on the hill. Fact.

How does not being in the exp group = sitting on a hill with your thumb up your butt in raids?

Mages are very straightforward, very powerful pre-50 then they taper down a lot until you get a epic pet (in terms of DPS). Some good utility, but over all pretty basic easy to play class.

Enchanters require a lot more attention when it comes to soloing, grouping, and raiding. Which a lot of people find fun, but some people don't. Not a good class if you have to afk a lot really.

Like what's been said before, comes down to play style. Mages can be less active and still function, enchanters have to be active almost all the time to function.

[Duckforceone]

guys, when you compare dark elf's with others, don't just focus on the stats..

also remember all the Kill on Sight places you have to sneak around.

Is sneaking, and running farther to bank, trade and more, or the grinding to max your faction, worth a hide skill, that only works some of the time?

[Slave]

guys, when you compare dark elf's with others, don't just focus on the stats..

also remember all the Kill on Sight places you have to sneak around.

Is sneaking, and running farther to bank, trade and more, or the grinding to max your faction, worth a hide skill, that only works some of the time?

A Dark Elf Agnostic Enchanter can go anywhere in the game that every other class/race combo can go, except just maybe The Dead. (The Dead faction always killed any non-Innoruuk worshippers)

[Duckforceone]

yeah but mage can't....

[Slave]

My Dark Elf Magician banks in Rivervale, North Freeport and Fironia Vie. It took a little faction work but you're going to be out killing mobs in any case.

[Arclyte]

A Dark Elf Agnostic Enchanter can go anywhere in the game that every other class/race combo can go, except just maybe The Dead. (The Dead faction always killed any non-Innoruuk worshippers)

my agnostic DE mage was fine in the necro/sk guild

[Slave]

my agnostic DE mage was fine in the necro/sk guild

Yeah I was 99% sure they didn't do that here. Oh well, they should. :D