Bat Wings?

[Oogmog]

I am almost 100% positive the vendor in EC always sold bat wings/fish scales, etc in classic. Or was there another reason this was removed? Inquiring minds are just curious:)

[Phallax]

I am almost 100% positive the vendor in EC always sold bat wings/fish scales, etc in classic. Or was there another reason this was removed? Inquiring minds are just curious:)

Nah batwings werent sold in classic...anywhere. You always had to hope noobs kept stacks of em while lvling and charged insane amounts of $$ for em like bone chips.

[Oogmog]

Well I'll go back to my rant about wolf form faction being fixed! I at least stocked up on wings a few days ago for the spectre grind to 50 so I'm not too hurt over it;)

[Weekapaug]

I am almost 100% positive the vendor in EC always sold bat wings/fish scales, etc in classic. Or was there another reason this was removed? Inquiring minds are just curious:)

I just read the patch message and thought the same thing. I'm not almost 100%.....I AM 100% sure you could always buy batwings from the EC spell gems merchant.

The second thought I had was, WTF can't they fix what they have already nerfed that was never in classic live before nerfing new things that were never in classic live? Specificly, detrimental spell worn off messages. Getting really sick of having to either eyeball a mob running at me or wait for it to bash my head into a wall when breaking root when I never had to in '99.

Who gives a shit about bat wings anyway? Priorities?

[Weekapaug]

Nah batwings werent sold in classic...anywhere. You always had to hope noobs kept stacks of em while lvling and charged insane amounts of $$ for em like bone chips.

Yes, they were. The same chick in EC that sells the fish scales sold them and if a log could show such a thing, I could probably dig one up to show you.

[nilbog]

The second thought I had was, WTF can't they fix what they have already nerfed that was never in classic live before nerfing new things that were never in classic live? Specificly, detrimental spell worn off messages. Getting really sick of having to either eyeball a mob running at me or wait for it to bash my head into a wall when breaking root when I never had to in '99.

Who gives a shit about bat wings anyway? Priorities?

Wow. Why don't you not tell other people how to do their free jobs.

I removed the fucking bat wings, and it has nothing to do with dot messages.

Just like anything else, if you find evidence it should be otherwise, post it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Here's evidence as far back as 1/24/2000 (see last post at the bottom):

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-6181.html

Considering EQ was released in March 99, it depends on what you consider "classic" and how far along in the timeline we are.

JBoots nerf happened on Oct 13, 1999 so we know we're at least to that point:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html

Plane of Sky released Jan 2000, so we're not quite there yet:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

[Gorgetrapper]

I just read the patch message and thought the same thing. I'm not almost 100%.....I AM 100% sure you could always buy batwings from the EC spell gems merchant.

The second thought I had was, WTF can't they fix what they have already nerfed that was never in classic live before nerfing new things that were never in classic live? Specificly, detrimental spell worn off messages. Getting really sick of having to either eyeball a mob running at me or wait for it to bash my head into a wall when breaking root when I never had to in '99.

Who gives a shit about bat wings anyway? Priorities?

Best words of knowledge I've gotten. It doesn't matter what you KNOW, it's what you can prove.

[Dalmi]

Meh

[Weekapaug]

Wow. Why don't you not tell other people how to do their free jobs.

I removed the fucking bat wings, and it has nothing to do with dot messages.

Just like anything else, if you find evidence it should be otherwise, post it.

Fair enough, but some of this stuff just makes me /boggle, is all.

What evidence can I dig up to support this? All I have is my own recollection.

I had a guildie who was obsessed with keeping a bag full of batwings on him at all times for kiting. The servers were coming down constantly back then, resetting the merchants, and the vendor in EC was his source for them in light of that. I know this because one day after a patch he wanted me to do something with him when I was busy killing bats in a newbie zone. So he showed me that vendor in EC and I got to hear about how convenient it was to the portals blah blah. This dude really LOVED being a druid and we'd always hear all about it. This was on my wiz that I had created several weeks to a month earlier in October '99.

Beyond that I'm not really sure what evidence I can offer. It's been 11 years....I never planned ahead for the eventuality that I would be on an EMU a decade later and would need to actually support a claim that batwings could be vendor bought in EC. And even if I had, I'm not sure what would support that, even a log. All I can tell you is, you just could.

And, yeah, we got root and snare worn off messages then too. Don't know about dots....I didn't play a dot caster then. Could probably dig up a log for that, but I don't think I started logging 'till sometime in Kunark....not entirely sure. Would have to find the backups I burned to CD, but here again, I can specificly remember looking at the book to med and waiting for root worn off messages.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I've already posted evidence in this thread that bat wings were on that vendor as of 1/24/2000. I should think it now becomes the burden of whoever thinks they don't belong on that vendor to show archive evidence that they weren't on the vendors prior to that date.

Assuming the direction that was taken with the patch comes from this thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9377

we just had a situation of:

"I don't recall them being there, dunno for sure."
*delete bat wings from vendor*
"Yes they were there."
"Well, prove it."
"But why didn't the guy who thought they weren't on the vendors have to prove it?"

I could be incorrect in my assumption as to how the decision to remove bat wings was made, of course. :) I would also go a step further and ask that before the devs listen to anyone that vehemently argues that they truly believe with all their heart and soul that bat wings weren't sold on vendors in classic go check the inventories and banks on those players to see how much speculating on the bat wing market before this patch took place in case the devs are being manipulated here. ;)

[astarothel]

Yeah, that thread wasn't exactly unanimous or solid by any means, so I would assume that there's a couple other pieces of info we don't have about it. It's also possible that bat wings were placed on a very limited number of vendors between release and kunark, but certainly not all the vendors that previously had them pre-patch on Project1999 (which was a lot). There has to be some reason people were collecting them as noobies and selling them like bone chips...

[YendorLootmonkey]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=77140&postcount=10

I personally don't care, because I'm a ranger and I get levitate at level 39 and by then I might be able to solo a bat for my own batwings, but when you put two and two together with the above post, it seems to me the devs may have gotten a fast one pulled on them here.

The burden is on those who say they weren't on those vendors to prove that they weren't prior to 1/24/2000.

If I were a dev, I'd be curious to know which players purchased an inordinate amount of batwings shortly before this patch. Not accusing anyone of anything, I'd just curiously look at the database. :)

[pickled_heretic]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=77140&postcount=10

I personally don't care, because I'm a ranger and I get levitate at level 39 and by then I might be able to solo a bat for my own batwings, but when you put two and two together with the above post, it seems to me the devs may have gotten a fast one pulled on them here.

The burden is on those who say they weren't on those vendors to prove that they weren't prior to 1/24/2000.

If I were a dev, I'd be curious to know which players purchased an inordinate amount of batwings shortly before this patch. Not accusing anyone of anything, I'd just curiously look at the database. :)

They were also training shady around so people couldn't buy them before the patch went up. I have no interest in bat wings but that's the only place I can sell in EC as evil so it was highly annoying for me.

[matahari]

I also thought that bat wings were not sold by merchants back in classic / kunark.

But after researching I found that before kunark they were definitely on a few vendors.

Click Trade supplies / East Commons. Also sold in other zones. I coulda swore they weren't sold in classic , but this page doesn't lie.

http://web.archive.org/web/19991128064236/http://www.eqtraders.com/



This is from the old eqtraders pre kunark.

I remember people selling them is the only reason I didn't think mechs sold them.
Also it was hard to find info back then. Like who sold them. So not everyone knew.

Fish scales is another story I will have to research that. I do remember fishing for hours to get some scales.

[Oogmog]

I also thought that bat wings were not sold by merchants back in classic / kunark.

But after researching I found that before kunark they were definitely on a few vendors.

Click Trade supplies / East Commons. Also sold in other zones. I coulda swore they weren't sold in classic , but this page doesn't lie.

http://web.archive.org/web/19991128064236/http://www.eqtraders.com/



This is from the old eqtraders pre kunark.

I remember people selling them is the only reason I didn't think mechs sold them.
Also it was hard to find info back then. Like who sold them. So not everyone knew.

Fish scales is another story I will have to research that. I do remember fishing for hours to get some scales.

No offense here, but the same vendor with scales also sells wings. If you weren't aware of the bat wings, probably the same could be said for the scales:)

[iamjack]

the EC vendor does sell batwing before any exp
the caster guild don't sell it until sometime later
but ya...the EC vendor do sell batwings

[BuzWeaver]

As a druid, I am 100% positive that lady in the hut always sells Bat Wings in east Commons in classic. I know this, because I remember coming there and restock batwings before Kunark expansion came out. Then after Kunark, I didn't have to worry about restocking when I hit 51 because of no reagent Levitation spell at that level.

Absolutely. There was a time newbies made some extra spending cash by selling Bat Wings for the purpose of Lev to higher level druids, however this was more a gesture of gratuity. Fish scales were also sold on the same merchant in EC.

[Kiwaukee]

Those of you bashing the devs for not prioritizing need to understand how priorities work before you start screaming.

Something of minor significance BECOMES high priority when it's trivial to fix. I'm guessing it literally took the code worker 10 seconds to find the mob in EC and remove bat wings from her item set.

If you're standing next to a mailbox with a sealed letter that needs mailing, would you refuse to drop it in because you needed to go grocery shopping for dinner?

[matahari]

Yeah oogmog I agree. That is kinda what i said. That most people didn't have the info we have today. I could of been fishing for no reason. If they were sold off merchants. I just didn't have the info back than of what merchants they were on, and the means to travel to ecommons easily back than. Just like batwings.

The scales could of been sold back then and I just didn't know. Show evidence that they sold scales before kunark would be cool. "I will do it for you"

The scales could of been added to the merchants years later. I don't know. But with the update below I do pretty much know they were.

I will look it up.

Update: : ) I could find posts of people in 2002 saying that you can make good money buying fish scales and bat wings in ecommons and resell them in the bazaar. They were probably always on a few vendors just not everyone knew about them. Including my wife and myself.

I also found a link of the merchant in ecommons. It does say she is a very popular merchant because she sells endless supplies of spell components. This is 2001 though. I will look for an older link.

Here's a link to eqatlas from pre-kunark that says : Shop with spell components.

http://web.archive.org/web/19991128112216/www.eqatlas.com/eastcommonsmap.html
This is the best I could find and it pretty much is the evidence of them selling the components pre-kunark. I could not find a list of the components sold though.

In classic i wasted a lot of time collecting wings/scales it seems. : ) But i had fun doing it!

Btw I did not tell the devs to take batwings or fish scales out. I just didn't know if they were in classic or not. So I stocked up on them.

The devs are the best I have ever seen in any mmo. Boats!! Freaking rock on! Constant updates more updates than billion dollar company like blizz. Great in game gm's that help people out. Getting things as classic as possible. Couldn't ask for better people running the server!! Free on top of that!
Please donate!

[Cogwell]

As a druid, I am 100% positive that lady in the hut always sells Bat Wings in east Commons in classic. I know this, because I remember coming there and restock batwings before Kunark expansion came out. Then after Kunark, I didn't have to worry about restocking when I hit 51 because of no reagent Levitation spell at that level..

The non-reagent lev spell was a Luclin spell, so that logic seems pretty sketchy to me already.

[Kirdan]

If I were a dev, I'd be curious to know which players purchased an inordinate amount of batwings shortly before this patch. Not accusing anyone of anything, I'd just curiously look at the database. :)

A lot of us did because the patch notes were posted before the server went down.

As for whether or not they should be sold, I can only say with certainty that I frequently bought them off the merchant in EC pre-Luclin in 2001.

[astarothel]

I'm guessing it literally took the code worker 10 seconds to find the mob in EC and remove bat wings from her item set.


I know of about ten Bat Wings vendors in FP/Commons area alone that existed pre patch, but yea, removing items from a vendor list is relatively easy.

[Xenephex]

A lot of us did because the patch notes were posted before the server went down.

Lovely.

At this point the only thing we know for sure is that they were there pre-kunark (according to the link to the Clerics board in an earlier post, probably supported by the link to the EQ traders archive). Other than that what we have is a wide variety of opinions.

I am not going to fault the devs for any decision they make; I do greatly appreciate all the work they put in, but... once we know for certain that something existed at least pre-kunark, doesn't the onus fall on someone else to conclusively demonstrate that they were added to the game sometime between release and that point?

[nilbog]

There were many merchants prior to the patch that sold bat wings. Many.

I'm not a bat wing aficionado, and it was easy as 1 click to get rid of all of them.

If they should exist on vendors, I just need a list of which ones, and I will fix them for next patch.

[Reiker]

As a druid, I am 100% positive that lady in the hut always sells Bat Wings in east Commons in classic. I know this, because I remember coming there and restock batwings before Kunark expansion came out. Then after Kunark, I didn't have to worry about restocking when I hit 51 because of no reagent Levitation spell at that level.

Yeah. Everyone knew you could get batwings from the EC hut in classic.

[oldhead]

I kinda like having to buy regents from players... I also play a druid.

Nothing wrong with noobers having more than bone chips to sell.
plus batwings arnt that high in demand.

I say leave em out classic or not.

then again... I dont want a 100% classic server

[Wildir]

I am 100 percent sure that they were sold in EC, I had a druid friend that would port to wc and we would run into ec and buy them in the inn right next to zone, it also had fish scales and other reagents that were needed, it is the only place I know of in classic that had them, but 100 percent sure they were there, I started in march of 1999, and I would have been around level 30 to 40 in this time range. dont have a date, but that would still have been in 1999 for sure.

Wildir

[BuzWeaver]

Here's evidence as far back as 1/24/2000 (see last post at the bottom):

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-6181.html

Considering EQ was released in March 99, it depends on what you consider "classic" and how far along in the timeline we are.

JBoots nerf happened on Oct 13, 1999 so we know we're at least to that point:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-1999.html

Plane of Sky released Jan 2000, so we're not quite there yet:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

From EQTraders: Merchant Katha Firespinner (http://www.eqtraders.com/sources/mob_item_list.php?MobID=1142) to my knowledge was the only merchant I knew of that sold Batwings and Fish Scales (back in the day).

What's key about this merchant, at least to Druids was Katha sold Bat Wings so people could raise their faction by doing this quest Bat Wings (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=89).

Some druids needed to raise their faction (Keepers of The Art) for our Epic:
- Talk to Farios Elianos in Felwithe south. He can be found in the Library that is behind a door in the shop. If he dont respond to you then your faction with Keepers of the Art is too low. You can build up faction fast with the batwing-quest in Felwithe south. If Farios talks to you, give him the pot and you receive a grocery list. He will give you the receipt for the bowl if you do a job for him. Source (http://www.thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/showthread.php?t=13210)

I can only base this on my personal experience. Epics as everyone knows came out with Kunark. Its not mentioned in the Epic thread, as most Druids understood that Katha sold unlimited Bat Wings because we needed them for Lev and we needed Fish Scales for EB, particularly when we were in Kedge doing part of our Epic.

I suppose its fair to say that this was one of those 'understood' aspects of the game that by its nature no one would have anticipated having to prove 11 years later, LOL. This is as substantive of 'proof' that I can provide outside of just my personal credibility as an Old School Druid.

[eqdruid76]

Bat wings were always for sale in unlimited quantities on the female erudite vendr in EC at the inn closest to the WC zone line.

[firesyde424]

According to the cached version of eqtraders.com from 10/28/99 located here (http://web.archive.org/web/19991128064236/http://www.eqtraders.com/), batwings are sold by:

Kathar Firespinner -East Commons
Jeliala Glimmercharm and Tika Shockstep - Erudin
Jeena Firechaser - Kithicor Forest
Hrak - Oggok

The cached version from 2/29/2000 lists the following in addition to the above:
Lysa Truegreen, Zasrin Blueflame - West Freeport

[YendorLootmonkey]

According to the cached version of eqtraders.com from 10/28/99 located here (http://web.archive.org/web/19991128064236/http://www.eqtraders.com/), batwings are sold by:

Kathar Firespinner -East Commons
Jeliala Glimmercharm and Tika Shockstep - Erudin
Jeena Firechaser - Kithicor Forest
Hrak - Oggok

The cached version from 2/29/2000 lists the following in addition to the above:
Lysa Truegreen, Zasrin Blueflame - West Freeport

Well, that clinches it.

My question is... if we need to find proof of something before something is changed in a patch to more closely reflect "classic", then how come no one was required to post proof that bat wings were NOT on certain merchants in classic? It's kind of a double standard to take something out on someone's "memory" or "opinion" and then require us to post proof that it in fact should be put back in. It shouldn't have been removed without proof. Not trying to stir shit, just an honest question so something like this doesn't happen again.

[nilbog]

My question is... if we need to find proof of something before something is changed in a patch to more closely reflect "classic", then how come no one was required to post proof that bat wings were NOT on certain merchants in classic? It's kind of a double standard to take something out on someone's "memory" or "opinion" and then require us to post proof that it in fact should be put back in. It shouldn't have been removed without proof. Not trying to stir shit, just an honest question so something like this doesn't happen again. I don't answer to you. There's nothing that I can say that will guarantee "something like this won't happen in the future". Have you ever played a game where each and every patch was fabulously perfect?

I said I would add bat wings back to the vendors that needed them... and that it would be done by next patch.

If you're looking for something else, you're reading too far into the bat wings.

[nilbog]

Kathar Firespinner -East Commons
Jeliala Glimmercharm and Tika Shockstep - Erudin
Jeena Firechaser - Kithicor Forest
Hrak - Oggok
Lysa Truegreen, Zasrin Blueflame - West Freeport

Fixed next patch.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I don't answer to you. There's nothing that I can say that will guarantee "something like this won't happen in the future". Have you ever played a game where each and every patch was fabulously perfect?

I said I would add bat wings back to the vendors that needed them... and that it would be done by next patch.

If you're looking for something else, you're reading too far into the bat wings.

Just wondering on what basis bat wings were removed in the first place. I never suggested you answered to me, I apologize if it seemed like that. It's just that in the bugs forum, we've been repeatedly told if we want something fixed, we need to post proof. How did the bat wings get removed if no one posted proof that they weren't on the vendors in Classic?

Plus I am drunk, so if I should just STFU and be happy it will be fixed in next patch, I can do that too. LOL

[JackFlash]

Thanks Nilbog!

[eqdruid76]

Just wondering on what basis bat wings were removed in the first place. I never suggested you answered to me, I apologize if it seemed like that. It's just that in the bugs forum, we've been repeatedly told if we want something fixed, we need to post proof. How did the bat wings get removed if no one posted proof that they weren't on the vendors in Classic?

Plus I am drunk, so if I should just STFU and be happy it will be fixed in next patch, I can do that too. LOL

You've got a good point. But don't sweat it, I think it's just a misunderstanding.

[Xenephex]

One thing I had completely forgotten (perhaps others did too) is that originally vendors did not show how many of any item they had for sale. That was that way at least through Velious and maybe later.

I can remember players occasionally communicating in game or posting on message boards that 'vendor so and so' had unlimited supplies of some item, and then having to be told that they didn't - they just had more than that person had bought. I can also very clearly remember one morning doing my daily vendor mining, finding HQ bear pelts on one of the Everfrost ramp vendors, hitting Shift-buy and realizing that there were still more pelts in her inventory, which meant she had more than a stack; it was a happy day.

Early on, there was no way to know what a vendor had in unlimited supply unless you were the first person to get to the vendor after a patch, or you just bought, bought, bought until you could be certain they had unlimited amounts. And there were not as many places available to share that information (and probably a greater tendency to NOT share when that info provided a significant edge).

[BuzWeaver]

Fixed next patch.

Thank you!

[pickled_heretic]

I would like to know who the clowns were who were training vendors around so people couldn't buy wings on saturday.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I would like to know who the clowns were who were training vendors around so people couldn't buy wings on saturday.

Well, now they're failed opportunist douchebags with a shitload of stacks of batwings in their inventories they won't be able to offload for the huge l33t platz they thought they'd be able to by screwing everyone else out of the chance to stock up before the patch.

[Kinamur1999]

I would like to know who the clowns were who were training vendors around so people couldn't buy wings on saturday.

If it griefs, guaranteed that people will do it.

[BeepBeep]

I love batwings. You love batwings. We all love batwings, yes we do!
Batwing pie!
Batwing stew.
Batwings for me and you.
Batwing shoes.
Batwing Hat.
Manastone? Batwings are better than that!
Its time to play.
Its time to cast.
Oh #$@! I forgot my batwings, brb really fast.



Ok back.
Wb to me.
Lets cast some levi!!

Now let’s run.
And kite some mobs.
Running over oceans,
Like it’s our jobs!

I love batwings yes I do,
I love batwings how ‘bout you?

[Shannacore]

Hahahhaha @ beep. i laffed. my boss asked why. i wanted to sing this to her.

[Shannacore]

sing this to me in mumble at some point please