All the classic things that bug you

[rahmani]

I just wanted to make a thread for the purpose of chatting with my fellow P99ers about things that irk us, and maybe some of you can provide some insight as to why the original developers made the things the way they are.

Not saying the GMs aren't doing a wonderful job, though. :)

It seems terribly unfair that Wizards are the ultimate burn class, and we don't get any decent nuke clickies.

Shamans get Jaundiced Bone Bracer (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Jaundiced_Bone_Bracer)

Druids get Luminescent Staff (http://wiki.project1999.org/Luminescent_Staff)

Mages get Burnt Wood Staff (http://wiki.project1999.org/Burnt_Wood_Staff)

Wtf, Verant?

[August]

In b4 Soloist's Icy Wand

[rahmani]

Yeah, but 38 damage?

[Kagatob]

http://wiki.project1999.org/Shissar_Elementalist%60s_Cane

[Tierael]

Drops from ? in Veeshan's Peak. lol.

[Tecmos Deception]

http://wiki.project1999.org/Robe_of_Invocation

Yeah, it's in VP. But good lord, a 55 dps clicky.

[India]

Clerics don't get an invis spell :(

[Kagatob]

Pretty sure both of those have a fairly long recast time though. Still, free nukes are free.

[Itap]

Clerics don't get an invis spell :(

next patch incardine bp will be clicky invis usable from inventory :D

[rahmani]

Clerics don't get an invis spell :(

QFT

[nothsa]

well in velious they get some decent stuff in velks lab

[Morgander]

I just wanted to make a thread for the purpose of chatting with my fellow P99ers about things that irk us, and maybe some of you can provide some insight as to why the original developers made the things the way they are.

Not saying the GMs aren't doing a wonderful job, though. :)

It seems terribly unfair that Wizards are the ultimate burn class, and we don't get any decent nuke clickies.

Shamans get Jaundiced Bone Bracer (http://wiki.project1999.org/index.php/Jaundiced_Bone_Bracer)

Druids get Luminescent Staff (http://wiki.project1999.org/Luminescent_Staff)

Mages get Burnt Wood Staff (http://wiki.project1999.org/Burnt_Wood_Staff)

Wtf, Verant?

But they made ONLY Wizard nukes harder to resist across the board later on, then gave you guys Dragon and Giant only huge nukes, plus Lures that are incredibly hard to resist, plus the best AOE nukes in the game, plus Translocates later on, topped off with Manaburn.

And this is all just up through Luclin I believe.

[Freakish]

Variance.

Unfinished quests. I would LOVE to get necro 8th skullcap, but it will (in all likelihood) not be released on this server timeline, even though it was a Kunark quest. It was just broken, like a lot of other good quests.

[ArumTP]

Broken line of quests, should have been finished within their given expansion, that don't get finished on this server due to being outside of timeline.

Donals boots, I wish those were undead DD boots, not earthquake.

"Balanced" set of stats on old world quested armors, and planar gear.

Lengths of time that need to be endured for the VP key. Should they have some meaningful length, yes. As long as they are, no. Trak should be the "hard" part not one of the easiest things to predict and kill.

[India]

Cost of reagents!

[Lagaidh]

One minor thing that bothers me to this day... /loc returns (Y,X,Z) instead of (X,Y,Z).

Grah!!

[eqravenprince]

These are probably the things that bug me the most

- Melee cannot bind anywhere
- Equipment stays on corpse instead of respawning with equipment
- Lack of faster out of combat health/mana regen

[gotrocks]

Broken quest lines that wont be fixed due to server not progressing past velious.

I sincerely hope nilbog/rogean consider putting these in, they aren't gamebreaking and nilbog has stated many times that theres a difference between something being intentional and something being a bug. I do believe those broken quest lines were bugs, and should be fixed as per that viewpoint.

broken quest lines just plain suck. Would love to see shaman cudgels and necro skull caps and all that good stuff. It would also give people something to do when velious starts to burn out (and it will eventually)

please fix broken quest lines! if not pre velious then post velious at least! nothing wrong with it and i believe it aligns with your viewpoints for the server!

[Alovia]

These are probably the things that bug me the most

- Melee cannot bind anywhere
- Equipment stays on corpse instead of respawning with equipment
- Lack of faster out of combat health/mana regen

These are the issues that Live was facing a few years ago. Younger players who were more attracted to easier laid back form of gameplay did not want to have to do long corpse runs, and found downtime irritating.

Live fixed this with spawning with gear, and the out of combat boost to health/mana regeneration.

I believe most people play Project 1999 because its challenging. Long corpse runs were a thing to be feared. If you wiped on a raid, that Necro was needed to summon corpses.

Now on EQ if a raid wipes, no big deal, you don't really need your corpse anymore unless you just really want the rez.

I get frustrated to with the health and mana regen in the the downtime when I play. But honestly the gameplay here reminds me of fun, and scary gameplay that I cannot get from modern games.

[falkun]

I am a guide.
Welcome new recruit. Good luck to you!

[gotrocks]

Welcome new recruit. Good luck to you!

lol falkun.

welcome!

[rafaone]

These are probably the things that bug me the most

- Melee cannot bind anywhere
- Equipment stays on corpse instead of respawning with equipment
- Lack of faster out of combat health/mana regen

Man what can I say .. if you dont like that, you dont like EQ at its full glory.

Welcome alovia!

[eqravenprince]

Man what can I say .. if you dont like that, you dont like EQ at its full glory.


You are correct. EQ is not a perfect game, but it's my favorite by a long shot. Although City of Heroes was quite fun until it shut down.

[rahmani]

Intentional classic bugs - These always seemed pointless to add in, these aren't really design flaws in my opinion they are misimplementated designs.

-- (Y,X,Z) coordinates -- There's no feasible way they would have done that on purpose, it had to be an accident. Especially since EQ was one of the first MMOs, the original MUDs they were based off of all had (X,Y,Z) coordinates; I remember I used to play them in elementary school.

-- Silly graphical bugs -- Lich form has no name plate? I don't think there's any GUI or lore (dis)advantage to it. It must have been an oversight. Why do druid wolves have name plates? Why do enchanters in all their illusions (minus skeleton) have name plates?

-- Utter uselessness of vast swaths of spells/skills --
* Begging -- yeah, you already knew that though
* AoE Rain Spells -- each player pet soaks up one rain per round, due to a bug
* Spirals of Al'Kabor -- mana cost is so high, nobody ever uses them

[Lagaidh]

-- (Y,X,Z) coordinates -- There's no feasible way they would have done that on purpose, it had to be an accident. Especially since EQ was one of the first MMOs, the original MUDs they were based off of all had (X,Y,Z) coordinates; I remember I used to play them in elementary school.

I always had a theory that it was a mistake, too. I wondered if it was as simple as a mix up constructing the string displayed to the user. Specifically, I thought the data model is correct (X,Y,Z), but they mixed up X and Y values when constructing the "Your location..." string.

Of course, there's a lot of game design I don't know... maybe there are more items akin to "(0,0) is usually the upper left hand corner in graphics" that would render (Y,X,Z) sensical.

The real odd pickle is: I've had a character logged into some form of EQ1 for around 350 days... why can't I get used to (Y,X,Z)? Heh!

[rahmani]

I always had a theory that it was a mistake, too. I wondered if it was as simple as a mix up constructing the string displayed to the user. Specifically, I thought the data model is correct (X,Y,Z), but they mixed up X and Y values when constructing the "Your location..." string.

Of course, there's a lot of game design I don't know... maybe there are more items akin to "(0,0) is usually the upper left hand corner in graphics" that would render (Y,X,Z) sensical.

The real odd pickle is: I've had a character logged into some form of EQ1 for around 350 days... why can't I get used to (Y,X,Z)? Heh!

I know the feeling, I am almost always running the wrong direction.

You are right, in WoW at least
(0,0) is the top left corner of the map
(0,100) is the top right corner
(100,0) is the bottom left
(100,100) is bottom right

Basically in that case it's (X,Y), but the sign seems reversed on both coordinates.

[Lagaidh]

This thread makes me think of other things floating around the forums the past 48 hours...

There's something that used to drive me nuts in classic, but now I just don't care at all. A poster mentioned this in one of the other "Classic" threads. I used to absolutely hate it when people inspected me without asking.

It's hilarious in hindsight. In those early days of the massively multiplayer online game, a lot of people, myself definitely included, took a lot of pride in our characters. There was a definite sense of "This is me, in that world." Many folks took a much more personal pride in their gaming avatar back then. Inspecting without asking had the same mental effect of a stranger walking up behind you and then flipping your shirt collar to see what kind of shirt you have on without saying a word.

Hehe. I remember when Sony actually implemented the feature to turn off inspect messages. You could opt out of seeing "Soandso is inspecting your equipment." Sony dealt with it because folks could inspect-bomb a given player into link death At the time, however, the theme of player conversations would have you believe the feature had been implemented because, "Geez! It's just so rude!"

[Lagaidh]

I know the feeling, I am almost always running the wrong direction.

You are right, in WoW at least
(0,0) is the top left corner of the map
(0,100) is the top right corner
(100,0) is the bottom left
(100,100) is bottom right

Basically in that case it's (X,Y), but the sign seems reversed on both coordinates.

Yeah that's a standard in the graphics I've been exposed to: winforms, WPF, that funky UI library on Mac I can't recall the name of, OpenGL...

That's why I think it's less likely that the data model is actually (Y,X,Z) and that it's just that the display of the /location command is borked; but I'm the ultimate on-the-fencer... I often try to leave room for what I haven't considered.

[Kutsumo]

This is kinda off the subject of this thread, but the only things that really bother me are the bugs/broken quests, etc that are left in just to stay 100% true to the classic patch timeline. Many of these were unintended by the developers and there's not much reason to leave them IMO. I would rather see these bug fix patches hit along with the expansion, and stay true to timeline for content additions.

[Droog007]

Try to stop thinking in terms of the XYZ coordinate model, and more in terms of the compass rose... i.e. North-South / East-West. You don't say "East West North South", and you don't say "North East South West"... The elevation isn't that useful anyway... hence it can be ignored, tacked on the end, etc.

I'm annoyed by ditching GUI compasses in the name of classic when the original devs probably would have been thrilled if someone had come up with it back then... but I digress. (classic could be more about what they were shooting for and not necessarily bound by what they were able to deliver - same lines as broken quests)

Has someone come up with a log parser that will interact with a map in a separate window? Using the last 2 or 3 posts from the /loc command to draw a vector? That would be even better - legal and technically still classic. One of you uber-nerds get on that. Chop-chop!

[nilbog]

I'm annoyed by ditching GUI compasses in the name of classic

http://gp1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/802892/production_public/Artist/736064/image/small/1343511358_BCS_Logo-1.jpg

On to the OP's question.. things in classic that annoyed me at the time:

-Inability to move items around in containers at the bank. You would have to take the container out, move things, and put it back iirc.
-Spells being interrupted by attempted player trades
-Erudites not being able to use BFGs
-many more

[Nirgon]

Time to turn out the lights on people without ultra/infravision.

Even still... the night is dark and full of terrors.

[Ele]

-Inability to move items around in containers at the bank. You would have to take the container out, move things, and put it back iirc.


http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90105

Time to get classic.

[Ele]

Time to turn out the lights on people without ultra/infravision.

Even still... the night is dark and full of terrors.

I remember hiding in the Oasis Inns at night because you couldn't see anything and those ghouls and desert madmen would wreck you out of nowhere.

[abazaba]

Has someone come up with a log parser that will interact with a map in a separate window? Using the last 2 or 3 posts from the /loc command to draw a vector? That would be even better - legal and technically still classic. One of you uber-nerds get on that. Chop-chop!

I remember a post where someone made a map program that gleaned locs and applied them to a map. I don't think he ever got a response from a GM whether it was legal to use or not, but I assume it is legal because the log info is available to everyone. If the staff said it was okie-dokie, I'd love to write something up :D

[Lagaidh]

Try to stop thinking in terms of the XYZ coordinate model, and more in terms of the compass rose... i.e. North-South / East-West. You don't say "East West North South", and you don't say "North East South West"...

Hehe. That's exactly what I try to do, but from the mental orientation of (X,Y). I agree that Z is almost always ignorable. We can usually see enough of the Z plane that we don't feel the need to abstract that property to a map. Standing at any one (X,Y) point in a zone, however, it's hard to see enough length and breadth to feel one's bearings inside of the whole.

I did have to comment earlier... after all the time I've spent with (Y,X) in EQ, why can't I make my brain get used to it? Hell I can speak and write in two human languages, code in dozens of machine languages. My mind is fluid to alternative views of identical concepts. Why the frack can't I get over thissun?

I'll caveat it though: I'm in a nature-of-perception-and-thought kind of a mode today looking at some of the conversations I'm having. I guess that happens when boredom is rampant.

[myriverse]

Are we so indoctrinated to the Vision™ that we're not mentioning hell levels and all that come with them?

[Ele]

Are we so indoctrinated to the Vision™ that we're not mentioning hell levels and all that come with them?

Just a fact of life.

[formallydickman]

Just a fact of life.

[Sinadin]

enchanter epic quest :(

verina and vessel....cant stand it anymore

[Shamen]

Shaman cudgel quest line! Add that 6th quest...pleaseeeee!

[myriverse]

Just a fact of life.
Until it wasn't... just like everything else in this thread.

[Ouzin]

Broken quests lines that probably will never be fixed due to timeline fuzziness.