Vox PUG starting 6/14/10

[Abacabb]

Starting around 3 P.M EST until she spawns, I will be hosting a PUG to anyone level 46+ guilded and non-guilded that would be interested in killing vox.

We will be using mumble if anyone is interested in using that as a means of communication!

Just bring some MR/CR gear, peridots, potions and any junk buffs you may need as I won't supply these things for you. Though I will be willing to help you port out to NK if need be.

If interested PST to Dukat in game, come in mumble or respond here on this board.

[Jify]

Hardcore dude!

[Abacabb]

Hardcore dude!

It is hardcore!

See the raid rules only pertain to guilds, there are no rules when it comes to a PUG because it's not worded in that context, so I believe this PUG has a fair shot at the encounter since we are not bound to the raid rules at the current time

[rioisk]

you forgot the "spirit of the rule" and IB and DA's top lawyers

[Abacabb]

you forgot the "spirit of the rule" and IB and DA's top lawyers

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3988008

[iamjack]

IB:http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gamelife/images/2007/04/13/harvey_copy.jpg

DA:http://darkdiamond.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/WindowsLiveWriter/PhoenixWrightDownButNotOut_1C67/aceattorney4cameo%5B1%5D.jpg

[rioisk]

perfect Abacabb

[Gorgetrapper]

Good job Abacab, through a kink into the flawed plans that are the raid rules.

[NizmerThafen]

I'll be there when Vox Pops!!!

[zordash]

Braad Mcquaid reporting for duty!

[Nocte]

you forgot the "spirit of the rule" and IB and DA's top lawyers

It's funny that you're quoting me when I've never raided on P99 or been in either guild you mentioned.

...and by 'funny' I mean 'completely irrelevant.'

[Jify]

I might have to tag along, just for the hell of it. :D

[Evorix]

Starting around 3 P.M EST until she spawns, I will be hosting a PUG to anyone level 46+ guilded and non-guilded that would be interested in killing vox.



I support this and wish you all luck as Vox is not an easy target as many may think. I would suggest reading and going over the raid rules as well to the players who have yet to raid.

[Gorgetrapper]

I support this and wish you all luck as Vox is not an easy target as many may think. I would suggest reading and going over the raid rules as well to the players who have yet to raid.

What raid rules? Don't you know? The raid rules are bound by guilds, not by PUG raids, so those rules are null and void in this situation.

[Kinamur1999]

This will get far.

Good luck...

[Shannacore]

Were you asking me about this last night orrrr am i crazy

[Uaellaen]

What raid rules? Don't you know? The raid rules are bound by guilds, not by PUG raids, so those rules are null and void in this situation.

Everyone should stick to the basics, no training, no KSing etc.

And in fact the raid rules are for everyone raiding, no matter if guild or PUG

[Yoite]

I'll help out on Yoite, i dont get off work until 5pm CST though. Anyways, i will hit ya up when i get home and see whats going on.

[Kinamur1999]

Everyone should stick to the basics, no training, no KSing etc.

And in fact the raid rules are for everyone raiding, no matter if guild or PUG

but it fucks with people...

SO WE HAVE TO!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[Aadill]

It is hardcore!

See the raid rules only pertain to guilds, there are no rules when it comes to a PUG because it's not worded in that context, so I believe this PUG has a fair shot at the encounter since we are not bound to the raid rules at the current time

Not quite true.



Camping a Boss spawn

If two raid forces of 15 people remain in the zone of a raid npc with the intent of camping the spawn the first raid force with the 15 minimum will have rights to the first attempt provided they meet the roll call from the second raid force upon the actual spawn. A roll call will be made in shout by the raid leader of the second raid present with 15 people. The raid force who was there first is then REQUIRED to have at least 15 members reply in shout with “present” within 60 seconds. If the raid force that was there first fails to have 15 people reply within 60 seconds, the attempt will be awarded to the raid force who was there second. Once the 60 seconds has expired ,the second raid force will also have 60 seconds to shout that they are present in order to confirm claim. In order to maintain “being there first” during a camp, 15 members must remain in the zone. At any point of that number goes below 15, then first shot would change to the raid force who is present with 15. A roll call is only to be used if there is more than one raid force in a zone and then a raid mob spawns.

Not that I don't applaud your efforts... I do. In fact, hell, good luck on the encounter! We almost lost it last time.

I'm just making sure that you are aware of the rules :)

[Abacabb]

Not quite true.



Not that I don't applaud your efforts... I do. In fact, hell, good luck on the encounter! We almost lost it last time.

I'm just making sure that you are aware of the rules :)

Well when you read over the same rules Modus posted, you also get lines like:

*The timer on the first guild starts when a second guild calls 30min.

* After timer starts you have the full 30min. Wipe as much as you want, let your numbers drop, etc.

* All calls are to be done in Shout so everyone in zone can see.

* The 30min timer is a timer to ENGAGE the mob. If the timer ends when a guild is actively fighting the raid mob the second guild cannot engage the mob until the first guild wipes or the mob resets (which would be from a wipe most likely)

Which because of the language only pertains the guild, we acknowledge that we have to have the force, we can't just two man this encounter, but we are not held accountable on all these calls and time limits... If we are there for the encounter, we're going for it.

[Aadill]

Going by your logic you'd still have to maintain the camp until Vox spawned and if you wiped your chance would be over; no second chances that is provided in that 30 minute window.

I'll nitpick if you nitpick.

As it stands with the rules you are picking apart: you have to maintain a camp of 15+ in zone until Vox spawns. Most likely another raid force will roll call you. Assuming you answer the roll call successfully, you will then have unlimited time to kill Vox. If you wipe, your chance is over.

[girth]

What makes you think the guilds have to abide by those rules when dealing with a PUG force if you(the PUG force) claim to not have to?

Also since they let non guild tagged members count as members of raiding forces in those rules, they may claim this a guild raid with 99% pugs or something.

[Abacabb]

Going by your logic you'd still have to maintain the camp until Vox spawned and if you wiped your chance would be over; no second chances that is provided in that 30 minute window.

I'll nitpick if you nitpick.

As it stands with the rules you are picking apart: you have to maintain a camp of 15+ in zone until Vox spawns. Most likely another raid force will roll call you. Assuming you answer the roll call successfully, you will then have unlimited time to kill Vox. If you wipe, your chance is over.

Just like live bro, just like live!

[Gorgetrapper]

Not quite true.



Not that I don't applaud your efforts... I do. In fact, hell, good luck on the encounter! We almost lost it last time.

I'm just making sure that you are aware of the rules :)

Umm, I read the server rules, and I don't find that information located there. However, (comma) I find that in the GUILD RAIDING RULES, which a PUG is not bound by.

Nice try though.

[Aeolwind]

Well when you read over the same rules Modus posted, you also get lines like:

*The timer on the first guild starts when a second guild calls 30min.

* After timer starts you have the full 30min. Wipe as much as you want, let your numbers drop, etc.

* All calls are to be done in Shout so everyone in zone can see.

* The 30min timer is a timer to ENGAGE the mob. If the timer ends when a guild is actively fighting the raid mob the second guild cannot engage the mob until the first guild wipes or the mob resets (which would be from a wipe most likely)

Which because of the language only pertains the guild, we acknowledge that we have to have the force, we can't just two man this encounter, but we are not held accountable on all these calls and time limits... If we are there for the encounter, we're going for it.

Just keep thinking you aren't held accountable. You've already been banned at least 3 times I can think of you jackass. I'll be happy to add 4 to the list if you pull this garbage, along with anyone with you that chooses to follow your childish antics.

[Uaellaen]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=209&stc=1&d=1276537204
i hope you get banned on your attempt to grief everyone

[Aadill]

Abacab: Considering a large portion of people that do raid know why you're doing this, there's a good chance no one is going to care about your antics either way.

No real need for a screenshot of it :)

[Abacabb]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=209&stc=1&d=1276537204
i hope you get banned on your attempt to grief everyone

Sigh... I told you I was joking but you took me for serious :rolleyes:

Because if you read my post on the play nice policy you would understand why some people are saying "no"

[Abacabb]

Abacab: Considering a large portion of people that do raid know why you're doing this, there's a good chance no one is going to care about your antics either way.

No real need for a screenshot of it :)

Actually bro, this is a pretty legit thing... I've gotten several reasons as to why people think this is just antics and they include the following:

"You just want to grief"

"You're mad because DA/IB wont guild you"

"Fucking Anarchist"

"You're like a unruly child who breaks things for attention"

"You're a narcissist"


Why can't I actually just post a raid and do it just to raid?

[Abacabb]

Just keep thinking you aren't held accountable. You've already been banned at least 3 times I can think of you jackass. I'll be happy to add 4 to the list if you pull this garbage, along with anyone with you that chooses to follow your childish antics.

I've got a list of 22 people that want to do this, and you're going to ban them because we're going to try and make a legit attempt at downing a raid encounter?

Are we training? KSing? No. We're just not going to adhere to made up timers that only exist to satiate the greed of the top two contending guilds. If you want to ban people for raiding EXACTLY how live was, that's your beef bro.

We're going to have the force, we're going to show up, we're going to give two fucks what IB/DA says because the rules only exist for them because they benefit them and not the smaller guilds or the solitary players.

and to anyone that actually thinks this is just "Oh no Abacab is just trying to cause more R&F drama for his amusement" you're ignorant. I've talked to many people in mumbles about it, many people in game about it for sometime now and we do consider this a legit claim.

[Aadill]

Abacab: You can't just post a raid just to do a raid because no one trusts you. "Back like it was on live" also included community. Obvious trains through areas to shake up people following the rules as they are written is a good way to get shunned pretty quick.

Assuming you follow the server rules, feel free to show everyone how it's done. I'd like more contenders for mobs, anyway, PUG or not.

I'm not flaming you I'm just trying to point out that for the most part, the raiding kidsters are too serious and you aren't. This is serious f***ing business, man. We don't want no clowns. :)

[pickled_heretic]

I'm not saying I am in favor of this, but there's a sentiment with a lot of newer guilds that has a "fuck you" attitude toward the two top raiding guilds, perceived gm favoritism, and what some see as an inadequate set of rules right now, and this thread captures that frustration pretty well.

[Yoite]

i dont get it. whats wrong with him hosting a PUG raid? Is it just b/c its him? like if someone else proposed this they wouldnt get as much hate?

I dont follow the raid guild drama so i dont know why yall all hate him anyways, im just curious. Is this a case against him or against PUG raids?

[Aadill]

what some see as an inadequate set of rules right now, and this thread captures that frustration pretty well.

Until the rules are changed, not following them puts you in just as worse of a position. I'm all for revolution but this is going to turn into a GM-involved thing fairly quick, assuming they even want to log in until after Vox is dead.

[Abacabb]

Abacab: You can't just post a raid just to do a raid because no one trusts you. "Back like it was on live" also included community. Obvious trains through areas to shake up people following the rules as they are written is a good way to get shunned pretty quick.

Assuming you follow the server rules, feel free to show everyone how it's done. I'd like more contenders for mobs, anyway, PUG or not.

I'm not flaming you I'm just trying to point out that for the most part, the raiding kidsters are too serious and you aren't. This is serious f***ing business, man. We don't want no clowns. :)

Well I'm just tired of people automatically assuming anything I try to do is meant just for the grief... Yeah, I'll grief you if you've given me a reason to and anyone that has dealt with me before knows the reasons why I grief in the first place.

So when I'm receiving tells calling me out just because their own personal distaste for who I am, I'm going to tongue in cheek it. I just find it funny I've accrued enough haters that I could write a 12 track rap album called "Ballin' on y'all"

[Abacabb]

i dont get it. whats wrong with him hosting a PUG raid? Is it just b/c its him? like if someone else proposed this they wouldnt get as much hate?

I dont follow the raid guild drama so i dont know why yall all hate him anyways, im just curious. Is this a case against him or against PUG raids?

It's about 50/50 some people don't approve of this idea because it's pretty much saying "Hey, the rules don't make any sense so we're throwing opposition against it"

Then there are the people that are going "Fuck Abacab"

[nilbog]

See the raid rules only pertain to guilds, there are no rules when it comes to a PUG because it's not worded in that context, so I believe this PUG has a fair shot at the encounter since we are not bound to the raid rules at the current time

There is no problem with pick up groups. I participated in many of them on live. I encourage it. If you consider your PUG raid as "outside of the server rules", then you are wrong about that.

The rules the GMs wrote don't include the "fuck you" loopholes that the guilds made for each other.

Q: What is a raid force?
A: For technicalities sake we will define a raid force as a gathering of 15+ people.http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2670

[Nocte]

Just keep thinking you aren't held accountable. You've already been banned at least 3 times I can think of you jackass. I'll be happy to add 4 to the list if you pull this garbage, along with anyone with you that chooses to follow your childish antics.

So you banned him 3 times already, and he keeps returning, and now you need a reason to ban him the 4th time?

I don't understand why you'd hesitate to delete any character he plays on the second you confirm that he's playing on the server.

[pickled_heretic]

Until the rules are changed, not following them puts you in just as worse of a position. I'm all for revolution but this is going to turn into a GM-involved thing fairly quick, assuming they even want to log in until after Vox is dead.

I think there's some double standards going on in general. It's okay, for instance, for DA/IB to play weasel words over rules with one another, but not when one or more individuals tries to do the same in relationship to the establishment?

[Aadill]

I just find it funny I've accrued enough haters that I could write a 12 track rap album called "Ballin' on y'all"

Perhaps you can finally pursue your professional music career :)

As far as your PUG raid goes: I have nothing against it. If you create a raid force and maintain claim to the mob per the current rules of the server, then you are a god among men (the men that play video games). If you disobey the rules, then don't expect much, broham.

As far as you personally: You are *too* willing to grief people. You let it be openly known that you will grief any and all. Considering your stance on "making it like live," you appear to be training people without reason other than your own personal contempt. This is not included in your vision of wanting particular camps or doing whatever, and is in fact an attack directly on people that may or may not have ever been involved in the original writing of the rules as they stand today. I do not agree with that because not only do you go so far as to grief people but then call them out when they request that GMs remove you as they are following the rules as they exist and you are not.

[Stickyfingers]

Do it! IB and DA are mostly assclowns anyhow, so seeing them cry would be amazing.

[Auchae]

Give him a shot at it. He obviously isn't all about grief if he made it to 50.

*gasp* Maybe he wants phat lewt, too?

[Aadill]

I think there's some double standards going on in general. It's okay, for instance, for DA/IB to play weasel words over rules with one another, but not when one or more individuals tries to do the same in relationship to the establishment?

There have not been any 'weasel words' being tossed about between the guilds. If anything, the rules are being followed to the letter as closely as possible. Granted, this is through my perception and I may be wrong on this.

If any one does try to weasel through the rules I'll gladly point them to this thread and your post as a call out :)

[Abacabb]

There is no problem with pick up groups. I participated in many of them on live. I encourage it. If you consider your PUG raid as "outside of the server rules", then you are wrong about that.

The rules the GMs wrote don't include the "fuck you" loopholes that the guilds made for each other.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2670

We have the force, we're not questioning that... We are questioning the fact that they'll try to strong arm by saying we are not a collective guild when it comes down to it, so because the top guilds will call us out on that we're not going to abide by the timers and calls

[pickled_heretic]

There have not been any 'weasel words' being tossed about between the guilds. If anything, the rules are being followed to the letter as closely as possible. Granted, this is through my perception and I may be wrong on this.

If any one does try to weasel through the rules I'll gladly point them to this thread and your post as a call out :)

You misunderstand. The literal interpretation that both guilds have adopted of the rules is basically the same as abacab interpreting the rules literally to mean (mostly) only guilds, right? You're advocating a literal interpretation and strict enforcement, yes? how is what abacab proposing not also a literal interpretation of the rules?

[nilbog]

We have the force, we're not questioning that... We are questioning the fact that they'll try to strong arm by saying we are not a collective guild when it comes down to it, so because the top guilds will call us out on that we're not going to abide by the timers and calls

When it comes to deciding what is considered a raid force, guilds do not have that authority.

Q: What is a raid force?
A: For technicalities sake we will define a raid force as a gathering of 15+ people.


As you see, your concern isn't needed. Your raid has the same opportunities as their guild raids.

Don't break the server rules.

[Yoite]

ok i see what yall are all arguing about. But ya, Ab, Nilbog found the post where it states for clarity sake a raid "force" is 15 people, guild or no. I'd still love to help but i dont see why our PUG force is any different than a guild force expect we wont all have the same tags above our head.

i dont think we get any kind of immunity b/c we're a PUG

[Gorgetrapper]

Yes we all understand that a 15 man "group" is considered a raid force.

Black and white, that's it, 15 people, you have a raid.

Those are the SERVER rules however, all the other "rules" are just guidelines between the guilds so that the GMs don't have to sort out a fuckfest (which they already do anyway so there is no difference).

The 'rules' are there yes, but that will NOT stop the top two raiding guilds to try and pull something in their favor like they try to do to each other. There is no difference in this situation.

[pickled_heretic]

"raid force" and "guild" are now synonyms for the purposes of determining raid rules?

[Gwence]

you should pug naggy, vox with 22 unexpierenced and shit geared people is a complete waste of time.

[Abacabb]

you should pug naggy, vox with 22 unexpierenced and shit geared people is a complete waste of time.

I don't doubt my crew, if we got the CR/MR resists and we can keep her cheals to a minimum to not at all we're golden

[Gwence]

I don't doubt my crew, if we got the CR/MR resists and we can keep her cheals to a minimum to not at all we're golden

lol, well it sure sounds easy enough. =p

[guineapig]

We have the force, we're not questioning that... We are questioning the fact that they'll try to strong arm by saying we are not a collective guild when it comes down to it, so because the top guilds will call us out on that we're not going to abide by the timers and calls

I don't speak for my guild but I for one fully support your PuG raid attempt!
Good luck man!

[Taluvill]

I don't doubt my crew, if we got the CR/MR resists and we can keep her cheals to a minimum to not at all we're golden

I dont speak for my guild, but do it bro. I hope you guys actually get the kill done!!

The one problem that you dont seem to get is that its the same thing gwence said.

Sounds really, really easy. just keep her ch's to a minimum and your gtg...

Heh. Good luck = ) Naggers would be much easier for a group of 22.

[Otto]

I still don't understand why you think lots of the top end raiders want these rules and not a first to engage/ffa raid environment.

[rioisk]

I support FFA. Total and utter FFA. Any rules only distorts incentives/behavior of the players. Allow training. Allow trying to out-DPS. If there is no direct PvP allow indirect. This "playing nice" currently benefits those who play the most.

[Aeolwind]

I've got a list of 22 people that want to do this, and you're going to ban them because we're going to try and make a legit attempt at downing a raid encounter?

Are we training? KSing? No. We're just not going to adhere to made up timers that only exist to satiate the greed of the top two contending guilds. If you want to ban people for raiding EXACTLY how live was, that's your beef bro.

We're going to have the force, we're going to show up, we're going to give two fucks what IB/DA says because the rules only exist for them because they benefit them and not the smaller guilds or the solitary players.

and to anyone that actually thinks this is just "Oh no Abacab is just trying to cause more R&F drama for his amusement" you're ignorant. I've talked to many people in mumbles about it, many people in game about it for sometime now and we do consider this a legit claim.

Where you stated this

but we are not held accountable on all these calls and time limits... If we are there for the encounter, we're going for it.

You are held accountable to these calls & time limits. If you can't buck up and get it done, then get out of the way. I got my start in pick raids & planes so I know what you're aiming for. But pick up raids are held to the same rules as any other raid.

[rioisk]

Don't worry Abacabb, I think by Kunark the Devs will understand.

[RKromwell]

I still don't get it, why Vox? That is one tough bitch. I saw her eat group after group of people who were sitting on 56 for months just so they could get that kill in. Pick up raids can be fun but man this might be too much sandwich for you.

[Alawen Everywhere]

He already failed. There's no group of 22. It's just Abacab on Dukat pretending he's camping Vox. Alone. By himself.

Get the hint yet, loser?

[bullet]

He already failed. There's no group of 22. It's just Abacab on Dukat pretending he's camping Vox. Alone. By himself.

Get the hint yet, loser?

dont be mad your wife left ya brew

get the hint yet, loser?

[Alawen Everywhere]

dont be mad your wife left ya brew

get the hint yet, loser?

I have never before run into a group of people more concerned about my appearance and my love life. Not even my mom.

I don't know what to tell you, "brew". I'm not gay. I'm just not interested in you that way. Try to get over it.

[bullet]

I have never before run into a group of people more concerned about my appearance and my love life. Not even my mom.

I don't know what to tell you, "brew". I'm not gay. I'm just not interested in you that way. Try to get over it.

I have never before run into a man more concerned about Abacabs appearance and his personal life. Not even my mom.

I don't know what to tell you, "brew". I'm not your divorced wife. I'm just not interested in you that way. Try to get over it.

Divorce is the path to the dark side. Divorce leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

Dont be suffering brew.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Wow, you're really that mad that your little Vox thing failed? You really thought it would work?

You're even dumber than I thought.

[xorbier]

Did the trust fund hippie wigger fail? Big surprise.

[bullet]

Wow, you're really that mad that your little Vox thing failed? You really thought it would work?

You're even dumber than I thought.

???

Wow, you're really that mad that your little marriage thing utterly failed? You really thought it would work?

You're even dumber than I thought.

[Abacabb]

Did the trust fund hippie wigger fail? Big surprise.

Nah we just moved to Nagafen dawg.

Seven people showed up total all of them druids hah, but most of the people who signed up either had to log or work in the morning or didn't want to contend with 38+ IB already perma camping the dragon ahead of time.

I don't see how it's a failure when people did show up, most people were just turned off the moment they rolled in did a /who and the chat box was spammed with IB, I wouldn't blame them either; that guild already stacked the mini-fridge with pepsi and popped their third adderall for the day.

Keep in mind also we are a PUG we're composed mostly of non-raiders, casuals, and the like. Most people only play for a few hours and log for work, they don't perma-afk on mobs nor do they sink 16+ hours to attain them so I guess QQ more about failures?

[Abacabb]

Wow, you're really that mad that your little Vox thing failed? You really thought it would work?

You're even dumber than I thought.

Why would I be mad? You just proved that you can't get an encounter without stacking a zerg force in the zone for days ahead of time, and I highly doubt you could get the encounter if the rules were removed. Why would a PUG try to compete with that? We moved to Nagafen, but I'm fairly sure either your guild or DA will stack 45+ people in the zone the moment the window opens.

AFK, two-boxing and all bro

But congrats on your pre-determined yet spiteful Vox kill,

[Abacabb]

My favorite part of the night though

http://i47.tinypic.com/33pf2u8.jpg

[nicemace]

someone's bitter.

[Abacabb]

someone's bitter.

I'm not bitter about it, just being realistic doing nagafen instead... But ya know I'll log in tomorrow at like 8 or something and there will be some guild rocking zerg force ready

[guineapig]

"raid force" and "guild" are now synonyms for the purposes of determining raid rules?

They have been for quite some time. Raid leaders were present when this working was decided and agreed upon. This is how DA at one time was able to claim a raid target with 14 of their own members and 2 from outside their guild. The total of the raid force was 16 and that was legit.

And that was the first time 2 guilds joined forces to take on a mob.

This is why, as the devs have posted it like 3 times in this thread, pick up raids are completely legit. Even if a guild has issue with it it is that guild who will loose the devs decision should they break a raid rule to steal a 15+ person PuG's target and get petitioned.

[Aadill]

pick up raids are completely legit

Exactly! Any raid will do as long as they can follow the rest of the rules.

As of right now the climate isn't setup to appropriately deal with pick up raids. Perhaps a little later down the road we will see a more reasonable approach for anyone who wishes to attempt raid encounters. I am not surprised that a guild came in to camp for second claim, nor am I surprised that the initial raid force was discouraged. That's how it feels when the raiding guilds go after the same target: if you're not breathing down someone else's neck, you aren't raiding.

[Taluvill]

The biggest thing to remember, for a pickup raid, ESPECIALLY in a very popular zone like sol b, is that your entire "pick-up" raid force has to stay at the fg staging area and be ready to pass a role call when shit spawns. The problem is that just anyone can respond to a role call from royals or efreeti or something, and anything could easily be faked for anything.

just 2c

[Tudana]

Not quite true.



Not that I don't applaud your efforts... I do. In fact, hell, good luck on the encounter! We almost lost it last time.

I'm just making sure that you are aware of the rules :)

I think he means those rules were set by Guild GMs and officers...PUGs dont have those kind of diplomats. So there for, the Rules set forth by the Guild meetings do not apply to a PUG.

PUGS are rebels without a cause. Bound by no rules set by a Guild summit

Good luck Abacab, I wished I could join you on this (I am only 43)

[Aadill]

I think he means those rules were set by Guild GMs and officers...PUGs dont have those kind of diplomats. So there for, the Rules set forth by the Guild meetings do not apply to a PUG.

PUGS are rebels without a cause. Bound by no rules set by a Guild summit

Good luck Abacab, I wished I could join you on this (I am only 43)

Unfortunately that is not the manner in which the rules were designed, implemented, and enforced.

Also, IB already killed Vox last night. Supposedly Abacab is camping Naggy. Whether or not he has the force to maintain claim, I'm not certain.

[Reiker]

And that was the first time 2 guilds joined forces to take on a mob.

You already forget the Transcendence + Divinity zergs of olde?