Ragefire Question

[zanderklocke]

From reading other posts about Ragefire, it seems like a consensus was reached that whoever does the turn in gets 20 mins for human form and 20 minutes for the dragon form.

Here's my question, as Ragefire is a contested mob. Let's say I'm sitting in the lair just tracking by myself until the non-KOS merchant spawns. I have a pearl on me but am waiting for my guild/whoever is helping me with kill to mobilize and get to lair. If I realize someone else is about to hand in pearl before I do with a group that mobilized faster than my group, am I allowed to hand in my pearl and then keep the KOS human form mezzed/kited for a few mins (as part of the 20 min timer ticking down) until my guild shows up since I've been poopsocking the spawn point? Or does the 20 minute time to engage the KOS human only apply if you have big enough force at lair to kill?

[Droog007]

Can an NPC "trade" with more than one PC at a time? Surely they must, else this would be a no-brainer.

Also curious - how crappy is it to lose your pearl? Can you just go back to TD and get another, or do you have to re-do other steps?

[Metallikus]

From reading other posts about Ragefire, it seems like a consensus was reached that whoever does the turn in gets 20 mins for human form and 20 minutes for the dragon form.

Here's my question, as Ragefire is a contested mob. Let's say I'm sitting in the lair just tracking by myself until the non-KOS merchant spawns. I have a pearl on me but am waiting for my guild/whoever is helping me with kill to mobilize and get to lair. If I realize someone else is about to hand in pearl before I do with a group that mobilized faster than my group, am I allowed to hand in my pearl and then keep the KOS human form mezzed/kited for a few mins (as part of the 20 min timer ticking down) until my guild shows up since I've been poopsocking the spawn point? Or does the 20 minute time to engage the KOS human only apply if you have big enough force at lair to kill?


The fact is you are allowed to spawn the human form with your pearl and so long as u do not engage him immediately (not likely since he immediately spawns and agros u on turn in, although u could manipulate this as well), you would have 20 minutes to engage technically. Nothing under the rules state where your raid force has to be in relation to when and where you spawn your mob. It merely states that the mob you spawn, is yours for 20 minutes to engage or until you wipe from an engage. You are not allowed to stall kite as part of an engage. So, if you turn in the pearl, agro the human form, then that counts as your free (up to 20 min) engage. You really should have your raid force in the lair if u want dibs, otherwise you are in a race as soon as it spawns.

Word of warning tho, anytime you deal with raiding on this server, run logs, run fraps, take screnshots, and try to have 8 other guys with camera angles also running logs and fraps. Otherwise, tmo will just run up in yer shit, train you, and get away with it unless u can prove otherwise.

[zanderklocke]

So basically, the 20 min rule doesn't even make sense for Ragefire because you automatically engage after doing the turn in. Is it possible to kill the human form without aggroing the dragon form right away, so you can have 20 mins to get people ready for dragon?

I've never actually killed Ragefire before; I'm trying to gather information before I attempt to start getting a spawn ready.

[Splorf22]

So this is some code I have been dying to write. It must be possible to have train detection algorithms. It should be especially easy here on 1999 where if you walk by an aggro mob you aren't added to the hatelist.

There are two cases I can think of:

1. A mob is not aggroed but resetting (but not actually reset yet). In this case, store the hate list as some sort of 'train list'. If the mob aggros another player, then that player was trained by whoever was on the hatelist. Possibly just delete the 'train list' after 10 seconds or so.

2. A mob is aggroed and social aggros onto another mob. In this case, everyone on the hate list for the first mob trained everyone on the hate list for the second mob.

Now obviously these rules are pretty broad, so lets add that you can't train yourself, your group, and your guildmates, which removes the vast majority of pulls. We can make that pretty decent too, for example if the trainer is guild X and you have someone of guild X in your group, you weren't trained. It's not perfect but computers are limited =D

Then the second thing we can do is add that a train must be of sufficient size, relative to the trainee. So if you are L60 you can't be trained by 3 LDCs. Sorry.

I'm sure these aren't perfect heuristics but I would think it should be possible to do SOMETHING that doesn't totally suck.

[Splorf22]

I've never actually killed Ragefire before; I'm trying to gather information before I attempt to start getting a spawn ready.

Pretty sure you can, ragefire pops right where naggy pops so you can just drag the human version out of the lair.

[Ele]

Can an NPC "trade" with more than one PC at a time? Surely they must, else this would be a no-brainer.

Multiple can have trade windows open at the same time, but he depops after first person clicks trade and respawns as aggro human ragefire.


Also curious - how crappy is it to lose your pearl? Can you just go back to TD and get another, or do you have to re-do other steps?

You have to get another Gimblox Ring, turn into Natasha for sea shell, turn sea shell to Naxot in BW, (kill ixiblat or not), go back to TD, turn note to Natasha for pearl.

[zanderklocke]

Is human form pretty easily soloable?

[Striiker]

Once you turn in the pearl, the human form agros you. Once he's dead, the dragon instantly pops and is KOS so you'll be fighting him right away (as Splorf said, you can delay the dragon agro if you pull human form out..). Have your raid in the room with you when you turn in the pearl and have them raid buffed and ready to rock. Get someone to snap agro off you and kill the human. Have high magic resists on everyone because Ragefire procs an AoE fear spell (Dragon Roar) and it really sucks to see a train of your DPS, tanks etc doing the walk of shame out of the room from the fear spell. You can position your casters around the corner just before the bridge to mitigate the AoE.

[zanderklocke]

But pulling human out of lair, soloing, and then not immediately aggroing dragon form in lair...how feasible is this?

[Ele]

The fact is you are allowed to spawn the human form with your pearl and so long as u do not engage him immediately (not likely since he immediately spawns and agros u on turn in, although u could manipulate this as well), you would have 20 minutes to engage technically. Nothing under the rules state where your raid force has to be in relation to when and where you spawn your mob. It merely states that the mob you spawn, is yours for 20 minutes to engage or until you wipe from an engage. You are not allowed to stall kite as part of an engage. So, if you turn in the pearl, agro the human form, then that counts as your free (up to 20 min) engage. You really should have your raid force in the lair if u want dibs, otherwise you are in a race as soon as it spawns.

Word of warning tho, anytime you deal with raiding on this server, run logs, run fraps, take screnshots, and try to have 8 other guys with camera angles also running logs and fraps. Otherwise, tmo will just run up in yer shit, train you, and get away with it unless u can prove otherwise.

Let ye who is without ragefire snipes cast the first stone.

[Droog007]

Can an NPC "trade" with more than one PC at a time? Surely they must, else this would be a no-brainer.

Also curious - how crappy is it to lose your pearl? Can you just go back to TD and get another, or do you have to re-do other steps?

Dude, if you want any questions answered on this forum, you had better get some heaving cleavage in your sig file, an obnoxious avatar, or both... Otherwise, you slip through the cracks.

[Droog007]

Dude, if you want any questions answered on this forum, you had better get some heaving cleavage in your sig file, an obnoxious avatar, or both... Otherwise, you slip through the cracks.

Disregard. Thanks Ele.

[Ele]

Disregard. Thanks Ele.

http://i.imgur.com/FLrKzNq.gif

[Lyra]

I don't like this thread.

My Ragefire kill was one of the highlights of my Everquest Live experience where friends from multiple guilds came just to share in my big day. It's a shame you have to worry about your mob being KS'd on a server like this when SOMEHOW we managed to be civilized 12 years ago...

[Ele]

But pulling human out of lair, soloing, and then not immediately aggroing dragon form in lair...how feasible is this?

Depends on class. He has high MR.

Shaman or druid with bat pet (and vp robe/es legs) I can see soloing human ragefire.

[Splorf22]

I don't like this thread.

My Ragefire kill was one of the highlights of my Everquest Live experience where friends from multiple guilds came just to share in my big day. It's a shame you have to worry about your mob being KS'd on a server like this when SOMEHOW we managed to be civilized 12 years ago...

Well ragefire drops all sorts of goodies other than the heart. Zander as a bard is after the armor.

TBH though I suspect if an actual cleric wanted to complete the epic most farmers would let them go through.

[Ele]

I don't like this thread.

My Ragefire kill was one of the highlights of my Everquest Live experience where friends from multiple guilds came just to share in my big day. It's a shame you have to worry about your mob being KS'd on a server like this when SOMEHOW we managed to be civilized 12 years ago...

Don't search for the threads when epics first came out here. Ragefire was broken and only spawning once per Nagafen (5-9 day spawn). Tensions were running high to say the least.

[Ele]

TBH though I suspect if an actual cleric wanted to complete the epic most farmers would let them go through.

If only this were true. :(

[Lyra]

Don't search for the threads when epics first came out here. Ragefire was broken and only spawning once per Nagafen (5-9 day spawn). Tensions were running high to say the least.

What's the excuse now?

[Ele]

What's the excuse now?

Duo-able dragon loot that spawns 5-7 times a week. Lots of plat results.

[zanderklocke]

Yeah. I don't care about the cleric epic or cloak of flames so much heh. I'd give that stuff away for free for some blazing armor.

[Lyra]

Well ragefire drops all sorts of goodies other than the heart. Zander as a bard is after the armor.

In my day, the bard became friends with the cleric and was invited to the party. Maybe even sat the camp with her prior to spawning. I had several people sitting with me for days (literally). I can't remember the exact set up...but I was on a list for maybe three weeks prior. When I was third in line, I had to be at the camp 24/7.

That meant there were always at least three clerics at the camp and entourage. I had a paladin and bard friend that were with me the entire time.

It was organized and civil and was really good for our server.

[Metallikus]

Let ye who is without ragefire snipes cast the first stone.

I have sniped ragefire from the nizzler/sentenza tmo farm team admittingly. Which is to say that when in a race to turn in, I beat them fair and square to the punch. I have never trained anyone or broke any rule in doing so. That team has competed for ragefire in the same fashion, with the exception that they have trained clerics in the lair, raid interfered by harm touching human version fleeing the lair, trained ragefire on a prepping raid force, ect when they lost the competition.

My post was to inform the new guy to the elements of the raid scene he may not have considered. Keep your videos rolling is my best advice to him.

[zanderklocke]

I wish it could be the way you described, Lyra. People steamroll over each other for FTE on mobs. Last time Ragefire merchant spawned, at least 4 guilds were racing to him; the guild that turned in pearl wiped due to creating a fire giant train from trying to get to Ragefire first.

Just camping the lair isn't even enough anymore. Guilds leapfrog over each other, and everything is about FTE.

[Metallikus]

It was organized and civil and was really good for our server.

organized and civil is the exact opposite of what the staff want for this server. They have come up with a ruleset that promotes cutthroat competition and griefing instead of cooperation and peace.

[zanderklocke]

organized and civil is the exact opposite of what the staff want for this server. They have come up with a ruleset that promotes cutthroat competition and griefing instead of cooperation and peace.

With the rules the way they are, the players have to adapt to them. Guilds could be more cooperative, but as humans tend to act in their own self-interest, which is often greedy, it is not surprising that the players play the way they do.

It's uncertain whether different server rules would change current server behavior at all, so the best thing a player can do is use his or her own judgement in every situation, for some this means putting other players first before pixels and for others it means putting pixels first before other players. Not surprising but still sad, the latter occurs more often on P99.

[Lyra]

organized and civil is the exact opposite of what the staff want for this server. They have come up with a ruleset that promotes cutthroat competition and griefing instead of cooperation and peace.

This is the same game...

We didn't have staff organizing it. The player base organized and controlled the list.

We learned to cooperate. There were plenty of Egos to deal with "back in the day" too.

What's going on here isn't working. Why not try a different strategy. Be creative....

[Metallikus]

This is the same game...

We didn't have staff organizing it. The player base organized and controlled the list.

We learned to cooperate. There were plenty of Egos to deal with "back in the day" too.

What's going on here isn't working. Why not try a different strategy. Be creative....

TMO says it is working just fine. No one wants to challenge them to be different for fear of stirring up the rnf trolls. As long as they keep selling their scraps, and people keep buying their epics from them, tmo can keep their children fed.

[bizzum]

If only this were true. :(

Hey, I've done it for like 4 or 5 clerics now! Just help with the kill and share the booty.

[Lyra]

TMO says it is working just fine. No one wants to challenge them to be different for fear of stirring up the rnf trolls. As long as they keep selling their scraps, and people keep buying their epics from them, tmo can keep their children fed.

Who cares about RnF? Seriously

You're giving them the power.

So you make an agreement between the other guilds. They don't want to play along? Well, then they don't. Sometimes the agreement works, sometimes it doesn't. If you keep at it long enough, maybe things will change.

I'm level 25, I'm not going to be able to solve your problem other than to tell you it is completely possible, one way...or another. Use your intelligence. BE CREATIVE!!!

[Itap]

I'm level 25

Once you get higher level, you will understand young one

[Lyra]

Once you get higher level, you will understand young one

So, there is NOTHING you can do? It's join them or go home?

That's not very creative.

[Splorf22]

Lyra there are lots of legitimate things to complain about regarding the raid scene, but the state of the cleric epic is not one of them. I guarantee you if you join any high-level guild, even a casual one, you'll have your epic before you hit 55.

[Itap]

I agree Loraen. I mean, you can buy the cleric epic for ~50k

[Boilon]

It's too bad the only guilds willing to work together are the only sane ones on this server. Of course it is those same sane ones who know who they can trust ;)

If you want to camp ragefire and want an extra cleric or coth mage, feel free to give me a shout. I'm not in to cutthroat competition.

[Handull]

But pulling human out of lair, soloing, and then not immediately aggroing dragon form in lair...how feasible is this?

very. i usually kill human form outside of the lair just so a mob isn't popping on top of me and randomly agroing someone to start. honestly i'm not sure if the human form summons, and he has high MR, but nothing crazy. once you killed him then you'd have another 20 minutes to engage the dragon form, so then you can relax.

[kotton05]

camp your squad in lair, keep fg's down around ya, have someone always watching, this method will almost guarantee you get the pearl turn in, kill human outsite lair, buff up and engage. no one should mess with ya if you don't have to race for it=-)

RF isn't hard to get, but sometimes it could be a long camp