rangers and monks and hybrid xp

[tommydgun]

so the monk and ranger are two of my favorite classes in this game and since FD nerf it got me to thinking... maybe i should roll a ranger again, and then of course i started to consider hybrid xp penalties for groups.

ranger is 140% xp required of a human cleric. iksar monk is 144% xp. so why do people cry so much about ranger xp penalty when iksar monks get into groups all willy nilly and nobody complains?

you might say a monk adds more to a group than a ranger, but i would disagree with the changes in FD a ranger is a better puller considering they can snare / root mobs to park adds away from the group and also can arguably tank better than a monk. with dual wield and double attack there damage isnt that far off a monk's either.

thoughts? and please i have heard all the ranger jokes and i actually have a 48 monk right now so im not trying to say monks suck either. just trying to start a legitimate discussion of why do you guys think this is or is there something else im missing about the way hybrid penalties work for groups?

[Vertiggo]

Race penalties don't effect groups

[Froglok]

FD is fine, play what you have fun with

[Elmarnieh]

I'm a ranger, on live and here. No problems getting into groups or forming my own.

If you don't have a druid (and to a lesser extent a shaman) a ranger adds a good bit of utility:

Sow
Str buff
Agi buff if tank wants / needs (required on those with agi below 75)
Snare, root
Very fast aggro for pulling off enchanter or cleric with flame lick or snare and the AC to tank it someplace else to root it.
Harmony for pulling to a lesser degree sneak for pulling to though that is becomming a lost art.
Higher levels allow regen to the group. (You're welcome necros)
Damage shield
Largest tracking range in the game.
And minor but still nice because in the last week I've had 5 people ask me - forage for those who forget food and water.

A monk provides:
DPS
lots of complaining about feign death nerf

[Itap]

A monk provides:
DPS
lots of complaining about feign death nerf

lol'd at this :p

[tommydgun]

yeah so 1) i didnt realize that racial penalties didnt apply to groups like class penalties do which is good to know, thanks. 2) great points about the utility of a ranger in groups, definitely making me think more about rolling an alt ranger. 3) having said 2, you definitely oversimplify the utility of a monk to groups, just to add a few i have:

monks can add the following to groups:
-pulling duty, although nerf to FD you can still pull safer than a non-FD class usually
-high dps, not just dps but top tier dps really makes mobs go down fast
-tanking duty, if you dont have a pure tank (and even sometimes if you do) as a monk you can hold aggro pretty well and i often main tank for groups since i am geared for a lot of AC and hp
-fearing for smaller groups to kite mobs and take less damage to decrease downtime
-mending / bw saves mana from healers and reduces downtime
-pulling out corpses from dungeons after a wipe
-allowing group members to run while mob is on you and then FDing to save additional deaths

i know you might think some of the above is a stretch but it is all real value added from having a monk in the group, albeit the only reason most invite a monk is so they dont have to pull anymore and they can get more dps. (hell if you can add foraging to your list, lol...)

[cs616]

Race penalties don't effect groups

I didn't think racial penalties were differentiated from class penalties and that total EXP earned throughout a characters lifetime was the determining factor in how much exp each group member is awarded. So for example if an iksar monk were duoing with a character with no exp penalty or bonus of the exact same level, because the iksar monk has had to earn 44% more exp during his life time the ratio between the two would be about 59% of the exp from each kill would go to the monk and 41% would go to the character with no penalty or bonus. Assuming my math is right that is.

Math:
1.44 + 1.00 = 2.44
1.44 / 2.44 = .5902
1.00 / 2.44 = .4099

[tommydgun]

yeah cs616 thats what i thought. i really wish someone would test this so we can stop infering things that we may or may not know to be actual when practiced. sometimes i even hesitate to take the p1999 wiki literally as some of the things dont seem to work as listed.

does anyone know for sure or has anyone tested this via leveling characters of different race / class combinations to determine rate of leveling for hybrids and penalized classes in groups and out of groups?

[Danth]

ranger is 140% xp required of a human cleric. iksar monk is 144% xp. so why do people cry so much about ranger xp penalty when iksar monks get into groups all willy nilly and nobody complains?

As in most areas of life, public perception of something becomes more important than reality itself. Rangers aren't wanted because everyone knows they're a bad class that sucks up too much experience. On the other hand everyone knows that Monks are overpowered and don't suck up so much experience. Don't let the facts get in the way of preconceived notions!

Racial penalties do apply in groups. The person who said they don't is probably confused with how things will change in Velious (when they won't anymore). Anyone can test this: group Halfling and Troll Warriors. They'll level at exactly the same rate while grouped. If this mistaken belief is widespread, it may also contribute to folks dismissing the Iksar Monk's hefty penalty.

Danth

[tommydgun]

see ive always thought they werent wanted in groups because they sucked up too much xp and can just be replaced by another dps that doesnt. not because they are a bad class... i guess i dont really get how they are a bad class when they add so much value to a lot of groups (unless group is perfectly balanced)

eh i think it may be time for an alt ;) and i cant take a side quest to try to teach people of their misconceptions.

[Estu]

Race penalties don't effect groups

This is incorrect. Total XP affects groups, which is determined by both race and class penalties.

[Elmarnieh]

yeah so 1) i didnt realize that racial penalties didnt apply to groups like class penalties do which is good to know, thanks. 2) great points about the utility of a ranger in groups, definitely making me think more about rolling an alt ranger. 3) having said 2, you definitely oversimplify the utility of a monk to groups, just to add a few i have:

monks can add the following to groups:
-pulling duty, although nerf to FD you can still pull safer than a non-FD class usually
-high dps, not just dps but top tier dps really makes mobs go down fast
-tanking duty, if you dont have a pure tank (and even sometimes if you do) as a monk you can hold aggro pretty well and i often main tank for groups since i am geared for a lot of AC and hp
-fearing for smaller groups to kite mobs and take less damage to decrease downtime
-mending / bw saves mana from healers and reduces downtime
-pulling out corpses from dungeons after a wipe
-allowing group members to run while mob is on you and then FDing to save additional deaths

i know you might think some of the above is a stretch but it is all real value added from having a monk in the group, albeit the only reason most invite a monk is so they dont have to pull anymore and they can get more dps. (hell if you can add foraging to your list, lol...)


See in most of the groups I've been in I have been the puller even if there is 1 or 2 monks in the group. Every time since the FD change the monks that have pulled have pulled like warriors, just running up to a full spawn room and waiving their hands and going "arjrjrghgjhhliooobbleleghhghh!" and then running back - no split, no fd, no nothing and then flop once they get in the group so that the cleric doesn't have any aggro protection at all.

[SirAlvarex]

For those questioning the sharing of racial XP penalties...

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=199034#post199034

[VincentVolaju]

I kind of want to do a Ranger now ....

[tommydgun]

jeez he wasnt kidding

Looking for Ranger Arms / Helm / Boots / Legs / Gloves


Dont need CoF anymore.

[tommydgun]

lol that didnt last long...

I kind of want to do a Ranger now ....

a few days later...

Looking to sell the following


Granite Bracer x2 - 2.5k each
Tolans Arms - 1k
Tolans Boots - 1k
Skull Shaped Barbute - 1.5k
Crested Helm - 600
Iksar Scale Gloves - 300
Kylong(sp?) Legs - Offer (not sure what there currently worth)

Lammy - 3k
Woodmans Staff - 6k


Will uppdate thread with new items when I replace others. Feel free to leave a reply here, or send me a PM.