Project 1999 - Game Mechanics: Classic ZEM values, and special ZEM for levels 1-6

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- - Game Mechanics: Classic ZEM values, and special ZEM for levels 1-6 (/forums/showthread.php?t=343193)

Another post from ShowEQ.net shedding some light on what I think happened with these ZEMs between 2001 and 2003 when the more widely-circulated ShowEQ ZEM list was compiled:

Quote:

03-07-2002, 09:21 PM
Cryonic

I could have sworn the xp gained from a mob had nothing to do with your level except if you were < level 6.

Exp gained from mob:
Level * level * ZEM * Class

Exp needed to level

(Level^3 - (Level -1)^3)*Race*Class*LMOD

Class is now in both equations for all classes but Rogues and Warriors because VI took out the class penalties by multiplying the exp gained by your class penalty. Warriors and Rogues still benefit from having a Class mod of .9 (vs. the Equivalent of 1 for all other classes).

LMOD is as follows:

Level < 30: 1
Level < 35: 1.1
Level < 40: 1.2
Level < 45: 1.3
Level < 51: 1.4
Level < 52: 1.5
Level < 53: 1.6
Level < 54: 1.7
Level < 55: 1.9
Level < 56: 2.0
Level < 57: 2.1
Level < 58: 2.2
Level < 59: 2.3
Level < 60: 2.4

ZEM varies based on zone, but in general:
75 Outdoors
85 Indoors
100 Dungeons

Then VI Revamed some of the unused dungeons giving them a ZEM as high as 125 (KerraRidge).

Your level only affects the fact that the MOST EXP you can gain from any ONE mob or quest is 12% of your TOTAL level.

http://www.showeq.net/forums/showthr...ull=1#post3401

Another confirmation of the special level 1-6 newbie ZEM btw.

Some older newsgroup posts from the 2000's. This one is pretty good because it references Najena, which later on seemed to have a ZEM of 130 (2003 data) but here is given as 80 (standard non-Kunark dungeon zone ZEM). Additionally there is a mention by the previous poster that ZEMs varied between 75 and 105:

Quote:

5/4/00

> the formula for mob experience is (level^2)*multiplier. The multiplier for
> nearly all outdoor mobs is 75. The multiplier for dungeon mobs varies between
> 75 and 105. Usually this multiplier is constant within a zone, but in some
> cases (casters vs non-casters in mistmoore) it varies.

The highest modifier I had heard of being proven was 80 (Ogre guards in
Najena). But anything is possible.
I'd like to see what the modifier in some of the Kunark dungeons is as
many of the MoBs there are tougher for their level and the Iksar have an
XP penalty. Wonder if they offset themselves.
Ahh well. That's a question for one of the "other" boards. Didn't mean to
get into it here.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....8/R5v40v5fwBkJ

ShowEQ data was very raw at this time and people were still digesting it and figuring things like ZEM out, so I would view Casey's posts as more authoritative where there's disagreement.

I just found a ShowEQ experience guide from mid-2000.

Quote:

Disclaimer: I did not write this and it has been passed around and posted on many sites. I have, as well as friends have, tested it to the best of our ability and it is close if not accurate. Biggest issue I have is the base *75 for outdoor zones. It is obvious and well known by many that certain places you just get more experience.

...

1. The exp given by every mob in the game = (mob level) * (mob level) * X.

There are four major catagories of mobs, 'newbie' (levels 1-4), 'low' (level 5-6), 'outdoor' (level 7+), and 'dungeon' (any level). The category determines the X value, which are as follows:

Outdoor: 75
Dungeon: 80
Low: 100
Newbie: Varies by zone. Anywhere from 103 to 114 have been recorded.

Therefore, every mob gives a fixed amount of exp, assuming it is in normal exp ranges (blue to red). Starting in the low-mid levels, mobs that are one level green give 50% of the exp that they should. Once into the mid levels, mobs that are two levels green start giving 25% of the exp they would if they were blue or higher.

http://web.archive.org/web/200010311...es/showeq.html

A little muddy but it adds something.

Here we go. Some hard numbers from the newsgroups on ZEMs from 2001.

These numbers are taken from http://eqzem.cjb.net/ which I see referenced everywhere in this time period but which wasn't archived properly on web.archive.org.

Quote:

5/12/01

"Elliot Williams" <su...@look.ca> wrote in message
news:L6%K6.69610$2_.24009934@news3.rdc1.on.home.co m...
> All the zones you mention above are newbie zones, and they all have
> higher modifiers than any wilderness zone. They also used to be higher
> than any dungeon zone, though that did change with the exp bonuses
> added a few months back. Even so, most newbie zones are still higher
> than most dungeons. Also, all newbie zones do not have the same
> modifiers.

It looks like the newbie zone modifiers went away, perhaps with the
experience system changes back in January. After more digging, I found out
that the base ZEM used in ShowEQ is 75, and the numbers listed on the page
at http://eqzem.cjb.net/ are added to that 75 base. The "newbie" zones in
Freeport, GFay, and Nek Forest all are shown with a 0% bonus. Prior to being
nerfed, LOIO had a 33% bonus, resulting in a ZEM of 100. There were a few
posts on Hackersquest about the easy experience in LOIO being removed.

> However, if you run an experiment, kill several even cons in Gfay and the
> same number in Crushbone, you will get more exp for the Gfay kills.

This is incorrect. GFay has a 75 ZEM, and Crushbone 80 ZEM. But, frankly,
can we really see the difference that 6.66% makes in our levelling? I doubt
it. On the other hand, I think that getting 33% more experience in LOIO
would have been noticeable.

I'm not trying to be the great arguer of ZEM's and whatnot. But, it seems
like many things about EQ are stated as "fact" over and over again when they
are not. Or, the information is out-dated. Heck, this may have all been
changed in the last patch, and only those people running ShowEQ (not me)
would know about it.

Anita

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....k/XC7BxNSmL7EJ

Crushbone having a ZEM of 80 flies in the face of its current ZEM on P99 based on the 2002/2003 numbers, which is 160.

I believe these ZEMs were mucked around with sometime in Luclin, because Paludal Caverns is the only other zone with a 160 ZEM and it would fit the mold.

(Also, on the subject of ZEM for LOIO since it's in that post: at Kunark release, it seems all the Iksar newbie zones had a ZEM of 100, which was nerfed down to 75 a bit later. Then LOIO was reduced even further because it was overcrowded. ref: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....E/rL8k_44W2V0J )

This is all amazing, and you're amazing Dolalin, but ... I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

Nilbog's a bigger EQEmu geek than any of us, so I think the odds are very high he already knew about this. He for certain knew about the old EQEmu ZEMs, and very deliberately made them unclassic here.

So while I would "vote" for this to be fixed with every fiber of my being (because playing here for half a decade has indoctrinated me into the "cult of classic", and this would make Green/Teal so much more classic) ... just be aware that there's a very good chance that Niblog has known about (but purposefully ignored) this data, and won't stop now after keeping unclassic (but sort-of kind-of classically mysterious) ZEMs on P99 for so long.

Again, I truly hope I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to brace you for the possibility that all this incredible research may not pay off.

More on how these ZEMs got changed:

Quote:

8/1/03

"Steve" <iams...@internode.on.net> wrote in
news:3...@duster.adelaide.on.net:
> That's some interesting info in that drop down. Crushbone and Befallen
> have the same zem as PC and Kurns is only 10 less too. Could probably
> do well going newb zone > kurns/CB > PC. Kurns is such an easy zone
> too with the tiny agro range of the mobs. Wonder what Sony bases the
> ZEM on? Zone difficulty is definately not the answer
>

Well, pre-PoP, in general Dungeons got bigger ZEM's than
open zones. There was a point a while back (the exact
timing escapes me) when SOE made a big push to get people
under 30 into dungeons. This was when they expanded the
cleric rezzes down to 14, and gave Paladins earlier rezzes.
They also introduced low level evacs and summon corpse.
Finally, they boosted the ZEM on under 30 dungeons (CB and
Befallen come in this category apparently). I think there
are 3 reasons PC sees so much traffic and the others don't:
First, location; PC is simply the easiest of the zones to
get to, considering you can bind 10 seconds away. Second
is word of mouth. Early on in SoL PC was near abandoned,
I leveled my kitty BL in there without anyone sharing the
zone with me for large blocks of time, then the word got
out about the xp there, and it became flooded. Last is
the fast spawn timer in PC. It's so fast that just 5 or
6 shiknar spawn was enough to keep a cleric I was PL'ing
fighting constantly. I want to say 7minutes on those.

--
Mairelon Snapbang, Arch Convoker of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....E/p5tiHw7mCigJ

Quote:

11/9/03

"Vladesch" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:PIkrb.3354$aT.3083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

>
> Im surprised with some of these values. Airplane, fearplane and hateplane
> seem a bit low at 75. Air and hate still need a wizzy to get you there,
and
> fear IS hard for the average mob level.
> Most of the cities have a decent modifier. Kaladim particularly high. (who
> hunts in kaladim?)
> TheGrey at 65? Hello? Shouldnt that make it at least a little higher than
> the average zone?

No. The mobs there are actally very easy. It was the first place AE
killing made it's reappearance during luclin.

> Veeshan 75? hmm its a hard zone to get to, and its a bad zone to wipe in.
> Should be at least 100.
Generally not an experience zone. It was added to be a raid zone.

> Crushbone 160? I dont see any justification to this.
> Guktop 150. I dont see that its all that hard. OK so dungeons are harder,
> but I see plenty of dungeons with much less than 150.

They were to solve a problem. Newbies were not going to dungeons, they
were all leveling up single pulling in Lake of Ill Omen. So Verant tried
to make dungeons more newbie friendly. They revamped the rezes so clerics
got them much earlier, added low level summon corpse and low level
evacuates, and last but not least, gave everything considered a "newbie
dungeon"... Crushbone, Blackburrow, Upper Guk, Kurn's Tower, Paudal Caverns,
etc... an absurdly high experience modifier.

--
Dearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci
Talynne - Level 61 Assassin on E'ci

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/6ZjsZK7KqQsJ

Quote:

11/9/03

"Vladesch" <do...@spam.me> wrote in
news:PIkrb.3354$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
- show quoted text -

under 30 dungeons all got an extraodinary boost when they put inthe
low level rezes, succors and summon corpse spell. It was part of their
attemp to encourage people to leave the safe old outdoor grind.

--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/H06-gQgRM0QJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin (Post 3042443)

Devs can do what they like with my info, I just enjoy finding out the truth. We're playing with PoP ZEMs and shit ain't classic. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolalin (Post 3042455)

Devs can do what they like with my info, I just enjoy finding out the truth. We're playing with PoP ZEMs and shit ain't classic. :D

Amen! I just wanted to warn you since you're doing so much work, but please keep fighting the good fight!

Preliminary ZEM list as I figure it should be given what Classic values I have seen here. Very open to suggestions.

These numbers are on the basis that:

- City = 100
- Outdoor = 75
- Vanilla dungeon = 80
- Kedge keep = 100 (special case)
- Kunark / Velious dungeon = 85
- Skyfire = 80 (special case)

Also, some zones were boosted in Jan 2001:

Quote:

Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%

While not mentioned in the Producer's Letter, the Zone Experience Modifier has also been increased in Guk (guktop), by roughly 12%.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/a.../t-288909.html

LOIO was a special case. It started out at 100 at Kunark release, then nerfed to 75 in Feb 2001, then was further nerfed to 60 later on (evidence linked further back in this thread).

Code:

ANTONICA



Befallen                        80 until January 2001, then 90

Blackburrow                        80

East Commons                        75

East Freeport                        75

East Karana                        75

Erud's Crossing                         75

Everfrost                        75

Feerrott                        75

Gorge of King Xorbb                75

Halas                                100

High Keep                        80

Highpass Hold                        80

Innothule Swamp                        75

Kithikor Woods                        75

Lake Rathe                        75

Lavastorm Mountains                75

Lower Guk                        80

Misty Thicket                        75

Nagafen's Lair                        80

Najena                                80 until January 2001, then 90

Nektulos                        75

Neriak- Commons                        100

Neriak- Foreign Quarter                100

Neriak- Third Gate                100

North Freeport                        100

North Karana                        75

North Qeynos                        100

North Ro                        75

Oasis of Marr                        75

Ocean of Tears                        75 

Oggok                                100

Permafrost                        80 until January 2001, then 90

Qeynos Hills                        75

Qeynos Catacombs                80 until January 2001, then 95

Rathe Mountains                        75

Rivervale                        100

Runnyeye                        80 until January 2001, then 95

Solusek's Eye                        80 until January 2001, then 90

South Karana                        75

South Ro                        75

Splitpaw Lair                        80 until January 2001, then 90

Surefall Glade                        100

Temple of Cazic Thule                80

Upper Guk                        80 until January 2001, then 90 

West Commonlands                75

West Freeport                        75

West Karana                        75





FAYDWER



Ak'Anon                                100

Butcherblock Mountains                75

Castle Mistmoore                80

Crushbone                        80

Dagnor's Cauldron                75

Felwithe                        100

Greater Faydark                        75

Kaladim                                100

Kedge Keep                        100

Steamfont Mountains                75

Lesser Faydark                        75

Ocean of Tears                        75         

Unrest                                80





ODUS



Erudin                                100

Erud's Crossing                         75

The Hole                        80 until Jan 2001, then 100

Kerra Isle                        80 until Jan 2001, then 95

Paineel                                75

Stonebrunt Mountains                75

Toxxulia Forest                        75

Warrens                                80





KUNARK



Burning Woods                        75

Cabilis                                100

Charasis                        85

Chardok                                85

City of Mist                        85

Dalnir                                 85

Dreadlands                        75

Emerald Jungle                        75

Field of Bone                        75

Fironia Vie                        75

Frontier Mountains                75

Kaesora                                85 until January 2001, then 100

Karnor's Castle                        85

Kurn's Tower                        85

Lake of Ill Omen                100 until Feb 2001, then 75, then 60 (when?)

The Mines of Nurga                 85 until January 2001, then 95

Sebilis                                85

Skyfire Mountains                80 (classic evidence for +5 here)

Swamp of No Hope                75

The Overthere                        75

Timourous Deep                         75

Temple of Droga                         85 until January 2001, then 95

Trakanon's Teeth                75

Veeshan's Peak                         75

Warsliks Woods                        75





VELIOUS



Cobalt Scar                        75

Crystal Caverns                        85

Dragon Necropolis                85

Eastern Wastes                        75

Great Divide                        75

Iceclad Ocean                        75

Icewell Keep                        85

Kael Drakkel                        85

Temple of Veeshan                85 

Siren's Grotto                        85

Skyshrine                        85

Sleeper's Tomb                        90 (not sure about this one, double check me)

Thurgadin                        85

Tower of Frozen Shadow                85

Velketor's Labyrinth                85

Wakening Lands                        75

Western Wastes                        80

Been thinking about this and based on this post quoted above, I'm thinking City zones should actually have a 75 modifier not a 100:

Quote:

The "newbie" zones in
Freeport, GFay, and Nek Forest all are shown with a 0% bonus.

Which would make more sense, because you'd think Casey would have said something about it otherwise.