Fair enough. I think we can work that out within ourselves.

Good to know, thanks.

Totally cool with this,, but I think it leaves a lot of gray area. By you stating 'hate list', I'm assuming you are going to be automatically grab this information from the code... which makes me a tad nervous and I just want to clarify...

Some scenarios:
#1) Bobby is running through skyfire to BW. Bobby sees Talendor being killed and goes in for a closer look. Bobby gets blasted by Talendor AE. Bobby is now on hate list, and Bobby's entire guild is SOL for next 2 spawns.

#2) <more likely> 2 Guilds from Class R are *competing* for Talendor. Guild A and B get there about the same time for the pull... both have members on the hate list. Guild A gets the kill... Guild B was on the hate list, but did not help with the kill.

#3) <more likely> Bobby is running through SF and sees Guild A killing Talendor. Wants to join in on the fun action. Bobby's entire guild is now SOL for the next 2 spawns?

If this is being done through the database automatically... maybe come up with a good # to avoid these scenarios. If 5+ members from Guild A are on hate list, then Guild A has "OFFICIALLY" participated. I'd be totally cool with that and that sounds easy enough on your side ?

*Edit*: One of the main reasons I ask is because I've been approached by someone in Class-C , good friend of AG, who wants to help us out. He said he can't wait to help us with some of these kills. Is he going to get himself and his entire guild banned?

I would hate to see BDA or another Class-C guild be too scared to send 1-2 guys to help us out, and teach us some cool stuff while killing these things.

I'm actually fine with whatever the answer is, but with your statement, I would tell AG guys to not help ANYONE , EVER (which I would not like doing). And if a dragon is up in their zone, /q out immediately and dont come back for an hour.


~Phiren

By 'setting', do you mean positioning after a pop? The way I have always interpreted the 'no camping out a force in the vicinity of a raid target' has been that you shouldn't even have a raid force either a) in a place to engage instantly and bring to a place in the zone with a full raid camped out (i.e. how Sev/Fay etc. have been for forever) or b) camped out in a dungeon right next to the spawn (i.e. old campout methods for Trak/VS). With that answer to the question, it now sounds like the only things that will change are Trak/VS (and the off campout in 2F PoHate/NE Corner PoFear) but the outdoor dragons really see no change.

The way the rules are written out right now have a lot of room for interpretation and are bringing up a lot of questions. Could we please get some clarification and answers to previous questions as to what you are envisioning as to make this go as smooth as possible and avoid any finger pointing or issues on day 1?

Putting in the rules directly that Class A/R designated mobs as well as VP mobs don't count towards the bag limit (essentially only the 3 FFA mobs do?) really should be put in writing because even having read every post in this forum prior, I had no clue that is what was decided on...

Big Rog clarified this in Server Chat.

C guilds can get up to 2 FFA + C mobs (non-including VP)

R guilds can get up to 2 FFA+ R mobs.

After 6 hours the R/C mob designation disappears and every mob becomes FFA (2 bag limit still applies till 24 hours from spawn, though and may be subject to change?)

That's not what I read in this thread at all...

Sounds like a 2 bag limit for the first 24 hours for ANY mob (whether it is class C, class R, or FFA) outside of VP for ALL guilds. After 6 hours everything becomes FFA so if a guild hasn't kill 2 mobs after 6 hours they can go for any target they wish, but are still subject to a 2 bag limit until 24 hours after.

Zagum is correct. Upon a full repop you get two mobs for your bag regardless of tier assignment. So there may be mobs slated for C and FFA. You get to kill two. VP is excluded.

I made the same mistake. I had assumed that the bag limit only applied to mobs that feel into their FFA cycle on a repop but Rogean clarified it.

1 - Getting AE'd by a mob does not put you on the hate list.

2 - This, I think, can be a concern. If two guilds are staging up for a kill (i.e. port up in Hate for Inny) and the pull is dragged over someone's camp, this could be an issue. Of course I would tell my guild to camp out right away anyway, but especially if you have mobsi n camp that might not be fully feasible before the raid target dies.

3 - Make sure your guild knows the rules when it comes to raid targets. The other end of this spectrum is 'why should a guild be raid suspended for one member who trained another raid?' I am of the mindset that a guild should be responsible for the actions of its members.


That said, perhaps there could be a limit to how many people are on the hate list before a guild is associated with that mob? Say 1-2 does not count as guild involvement. That way if trackers/pullers/lost characters happen into the encounter logs their guild is not penalized.

Not to get into specifics about how our system works but it was designed with a small amount of leniency for a player or two getting aggro and not locking their guild out, provided it was a failed FTE attempt or accidental aggro.

Guilds are still strongly advised to follow the rules of FTE. Let a mob reset before engaging. If you don't have the FTE shout, don't engage it.

Looks like Rogean has spoken, thank you!

Although that clears up a lot of concerns I had about the accidental aggro / FTE situation ...

I would still be interested in knowing if 1-2 people from BDA can come help AG with a kill. And if 1-2 can help, can 3? Or are you going to be really strict about this and force guilds to only work within their own ranks?

Not arguing / debating at all, whatever your decision is... just looking for some clarification because this WILL come up 30 mins after the first dragon pops within a lot of the Class-R guilds. We have all offered to help each other. That doesn't mean BDA is going to send 30 people to join our 5. But I'm sure we'd all like to know if we can ask for assistance without impacting their whole guild for the next month.



~Phiren

Yes, this ^. My original post was incorrect and has been edited to reflect that.