Partial agree; despite the level of toxicity of the player, the red server by having PVP rules inherently gives the toxic player more opportunities to be a scumbag

Agreein with you. For plenty of reasons, the red server always seems to be an afterthought when it comes to staffing decisions, and it seems like guides being selected especially recently are out of touch and underprepared for the red server. I believe the Play Nice Policy is very well written, clear, and applies well to this server, and I'm sure others will disagree, but my problem is with the consistency of enforcement. In the time I've been on this server, there's been times where I won't talk in /ooc out of fear of my names being changed, and others where there isn't even a CSR presence on the server. Rules outside of the PnP need to be more clearly written and available in the centralized thread for players to read. Players need to have reasons to want to follow the rules on a consistent basis or they mean nothing. I don't feel like there should be red server specific rules like this if they're only being enforced occasionally, or heavily one week and not at all the next.

For this to happen, a few things that will never happen need to happen. Red server needs to become somewhat of a priority for the staff. The server population needs to not troll off the guides (I'll even admit to being responsible for some of this myself) and we all need to grow up and be big kids and not try to weasel rules lawyer and undermine the authority of the staff if they decide to start giving a shit about the health of this server.

tl;dr we're all too gay for this to ever work and it's not like the staff cares about us anyway :o wipe it clean 2016

and please guys can we not turn my seriouspost meta discussion about the server into shit-slinging about this guild that guild? you guys have enough threads to post that in. this is a chillaxed civil discussion and also a place to show your gratitude to the staff for putting up with the kind of people who post in RnF and are actually serious when they do it

Would love to see someone with half our numbers use the vast amount of time we give them to kill vindi, kill vindi or even come close. nawm sayin?

Pras Rogean for trolling the fuck out these drama queen fgts.

I think we've rehashed the same critical points for several months/ years now. The complaints aren't new. Contrary to what you might think, the PnP is very vague. If it allows for frivolous petition-questing and different interpretations based on a staff member's moods on any given day, it's not only not good enough, it's debasing the server as a whole.

Yet, it's up to the players to fix it. And I've reached out plenty of times to other guild leaders with far better proposals than what the PnP is now, but because of general hatred amongst guilds (and undermining trolls like <Friends>, whose goal is, self-admittedly, to take fun away from everyone on the server), there's really never going to be a situation where every guild will come together to talk about the PnP, let alone agree on realistic terms.

The reason the PnP was left in our hands is directly relative to GM involvement - they don't want to spend the time, resources or energy on this server beyond the minor presence it takes to mediate our often childish grievances that aren't covered in the PnP. And, to be fair, GMs shouldn't have to police us in that way, but they should also be paying attention to the things that matter most, like PvP mechanics, or the fact that their presence is needed and appreciated regardless of the current fucked up PnP.

The bigger issue is that 90% of the developers don't even like or comprehend the draw of Everquest PvP, and the other 10% who do don't understand it fully.

The owner of the entire project is trying to go to war with my guild over a troll thread(s), and engaging with his hostility toward us is about the quickest way I can see our guild being dissolved/ banned for "disrespecting the staff."

Given how comically disproportionate, and almost outright absurd, the challenge he gave us was, "disrespect" would be damn near the only honest response we could make.

If that doesn't illuminate or tell you something about how poorly our server is perceived and understood by those making the decisions, I don't know what will.

Regardless, if you want the PnP to change, you have to gather all the factions first. Have fun with that.

some very valid points you bring up.

The PnP policy is actually not very vague at all, let's get real here. The spirit of the rule is pretty simple. Don't intentionally cause EXP loss of players. Don't camp people at their binds. If a player calls loot and scoot, you can't kill them but they also must immediately leave the zone, camp, or meditate and port out upon having enough mana to.

The text of the rule is kept vague (ex it doesn't say how often you can bind camp a player, just not to do it excessively) specifically because they don't want people to have power to rules lawyer technicalities and undermine the authority of the staff. Which we've managed to do anyway.

I think with an active guide on the server who knows the difference between a griefer trying to bend the rules, how to spot fake-petition griefing (definitely A Thing on red re: <Friends>) the PnP makes a lot of sense. It's a good set of rules, but it inherently makes a LOT of work for the staff simply by existing, unless they choose to ignore it (like the game is now currently)

So yeah I think the PnP is a good rule but I also think they should take it out of the game unless they have some guide-in-training going through rocky balboa montages to get ready to handle red. I'm not really holding my breath sadly :(

Yeah I think at this point the various factions on this server coming to any sort of agreement about anything is out of the picture. It's even weird to have a normal discussion like this in RnF without everyone bringing out the troll personas.

This server really needs more dialogue between guilds. The constructive kind, not the /ooc kind. We're all stuck on the box together, like it or not.


And the only people who really do are probably way too personally invested in random red server /drama/ to ever be guide material. That's the shitty part.

jesus christ you're dumb

lol dead on

Do you even play on red? I wont go into long winded detail because this has been brought up time and time again, but the pnp is very vague. There are too many instances in a pvp situation that could unintentionally cause exp loss that i would run out of space trying to type them all out. Lets just say this dead horse has been beat to a pulp in many other threads. Go do a little pvp'in, fight through some petitions against u from crybabies, then come back here and "enlighten" us all further on how the pnp isnt vague.