Thing is, when holocaust was crushing people around Guk (in ro i think), i was trying to organize randos to just stick together and fight em. Nobody wanted to, XP loss hurt too much. Same story when i was with Andis guild trying to fight nihilum in fear. Just gave up at same point and joined them. When xp loss was finally removed, damage had been done. Would probably be a different story with people not losing xp and having a fighting chance when the gank train came around, or at least that the option of gettting them back later with guerilla style pvp is there, when the big crew goes back to leveling. Youd have to think about pissing off randos vs wanting some quiet leveling time because now they can mess with you if you piss them off.

If youre fragile enough that you cant take the early pvp, dont find amusment in it, probably aint cut out to play a pvp server anyway. I think some kind of safety should be there (which is why i pushed for xp loss removal). But personally, if you weight the advantages of teams for early safe zones vs hard locked teams at end game, id go for being able to "switch teams" (guilds). Also, typing the paragraph below, i just remembered thats how i quit sullon, killed by a 45 wiz in blackburrow. Nothing much is stopping a high level to come in and grief lowbies. By the time hes called out, if hes a porter hes already elsewhere griefing somebody else.

I can take some punishment. Alot. I stuck it out here for a long time with xp loss with no real crew until classic endgame. On rallos, i was about to quit when the halloween event happened which had the no drop loot gear. Without that, im not sure i would have continued playing, its so hard going naked all the time and i wasnt even a melee. To me, 2 is my "dream" server setup. But it requires work, those events have to be patched in or else people are going to quit, server is going to be low pop fast and it defeats the purpose of launching a new server. You need to be able to retain the pop, make them have fun. Like i said, a couple of extra events, or custom mobs dropping no-drop gear to offset the harshness of item loot would be perfect. Im not even sure if those events are accessible to emu devs, or if they would have to be recreated from scratch. Also if i got timeline right, these are early Velious events. Youd need some custom ones for classic, or make these ones happen in classic, imo.

Id certainly try a sullon style server, and im honestly not sure how much it would retain its playerbase. But i rolled on sullon first, back when i started. Got zapped by a 45 wizard in BB and thought fuck this, gonna try the other pvp server. My guess would be this will happen alot, especially now that ive seen the poopsocking method of people taking shifts to level characters at server launch.

NOTE: I'll be more of a jerk than normal below, because this is a Red forum and ... I'm trying.

All of you are losers and all of your ideas will fail, because you all think only about individuals. EQ PvP is a game, and good games are designed as a system.

If you want a successful PvP system, you've already failed the moment you think:

... because you're focusing on individuals, not systems (and also because you're working to empty out your future server before it even exists).

Do you think a lot of people who played Doom, or Quake, or Half-Life (or DaoC/SW:G/WoW) thought "I'm too fragile for this, this game sucks?"

Of course not, morons! Those were good PvP game systems, and they took whatever players played them and made them a part of that system, so it was fun for everyone ... even if they were fragile little non-PvPing babies at the start.

Figure out how to create a system, not just a fantasy in your head where you gank lots of non-existent people, and maybe you'll be able to get Rogean's attention ... losers.

https://i.imgur.com/U6SjzGg.gif

And thats exactly what im doing. Elaborating on ways to make people enjoy themselves. Gfay as a trading hub and newb pvp central on Rallos was awesome. Its part of the magic that was missing on red when it launched. A rallos style server could work, but i think without the tweaks i suggested, its not going to be as good as it could be. Im guessing you just werent here at launch to witness what the vets of this server did: See a 500+ pop nosedive to 150 pretty quickly, with "grief them off the server" being a running joke and a badge of honor.

Wow pvp imo took off because it made pvp so much smoother and enjoyable than EQ. I still remember when it clicked for me in Wow. I was on my 27 priest and helped 2 other guys take down a 52 hunter. I was like WOW this is wow? Wow me in! XD

EQ pvp is still fun, but clunky and you have to make the best of it. Im not gonna type another wall of text, im not sure what youre complaining about, i did talk about the different systems, their pros and cons.

My post was 10% responding specifically to your's, and 90% using a specific quote of it to reference a larger issue with the majority of the talk of PvP rulesets. Idiot.

Only thing I've ever read on this forum that I agree with

Cool let's play the pvp server where everyone makes ogres, iksars and dark elves again

Can someone explain why it is acknowledged that dying sucks and people quit over it, but then there is discussion and proposal for a Rallos-style server where items can be looted? To me this translates to something like 'yeah, we understand dying sucks... HEY LETS MAKE IT EVEN HARSHER!'

My proposal:
- 3 team server
- no exp loss on pvp death
- +/- 4 level limit
- Perhaps limit which zones level <10 can zone into to limit spies
- Upon death: a) you leave a corpse with your coin on it b) you effectively revive at your bind point with all your gear and low hp/mana
- Corpse with coin can hang around for 30min-1hr for the purposes of your group rezzing it, even if it has no coin on it (empty corpse).
- Community encouraged LNS
- Sullon style: no CSR
- Guaranteed server wipe and restart if it has less than 50 players for a period of time (1-2 weeks?)

You had your custom box, it failed

Couldn't the teams be red/green/blue? Pick a team upon choosing race/class?

The overall problem is the game is inaccessible to normal people.

No friends/guild potential because the guild crews have basically been formed over the years.

EXP is brutal, normal people don't want to play a hardcore low pop PVP box against only sick fucks and invest an insane amount of time to do it.

Even experienced veterans who were stoked about a new box said ehh fuck it, new players have like 0 chance of making it.

There would be exploits with teams though and mechanic issues no doubt, ffa raid zones maybe? Wahh custom.