Everyone seems to like the idea of more FFA, but good or bad, it IS going to cause a lot more drama.

I forsee a lot of this with neither guild willing to admit they were second.

Yea, that is sort of my point. It does in a way eliminate some camping and create more chances due to wipe, but i can guarantee you /petitions will go through the roof.

Agreed, Skope.

The guilds fighting for raid mobs want to be the best, want to gear their members and want to prevent other guilds from taking raid mobs from their guild.

Just because the rules are being changed and poopsocking will become more difficult doesn't mean guilds are going to get along and act civilly when competing for a target.

I'd prefer that your guilds/raids came to a general agreement so that we do not have to make a maze of rules that no one likes. 2 out of 3 golems claims CT? A raid actively working on a linked script has claim until wipe? There's two suggestions that are not rules yet.

The way the new rules read would be if a golem is unengaged, then it's first to engage. If CT is unengaged, then CT is first to engage.

The rules are subject to changes or amendments as needed. I'd prefer to keep them to a minimum.

If Guild A wipes due to its members being afk, this is an example of why afk camping won't work now. It opens Nagafen up to anyone that is ready and willing to engage.

4 guilds in the same zone is crazy anyways. Guilds B, C, and D could just leave a tracker in the zone, and call their guild when he pops. This would even give Guild A the chance to cr and try again, if they were the first to re-engage.

If 45+ players simultaneously charged Nagafen, I think it would be pretty fun myself, no need for GMs.

It's a grey area in the rules.

You win.

Pay attention what's going on around you? If you see someone fighting a golem, understand that its going to mean CT for someone soon.

We will add more rules if they are needed. I think it is important to at least give you guys a chance to try first to engage.

If you keep wanting more rules, you'll get them, don't worry. I was under the impression you people wanted less rules.

I'd suggest to everyone to not create superfluous petitions. If your guild prepares a petition with evidence against another guild that explicitly shows them violating the rules, they will be banned for a week, weeks, or permanently. If you make a petition with no evidence and waste our time, I have no problem wasting yours. I'd rather depop a mob than listen to 40 people cry about it.


In general, raids need to stop calling for GMs. You guys said you didn't need babysitters, man up and don't fuck it up.

I like the part about depopping. If you can't come to an agreement in game, mob is depopped.

But, Nilbog, doesn't

essentially one of the problems that we recently had all over again? There were player-made rules that were promised to be enforced by a particular GM that filled out the gaps in the rules that we had before, these rules were disobeyed and that same GM claimed (and you did, as well) that only the official rules would be enforced. This "grey area" that guilds have to decide for themselves (whether at the target/zone or via forums/vent?) wouldn't be considered one of the official rules? Because guild C can promise guild B for a shot after guild A wipes, but then just hop in and take it and it's all fine and dandy.

I guess my questions are: is it FFA/FTE when things get ugly? Because that's the current vibe im getting. or are we to being asked to fill in the gaps again with no GM backing? is there going to be some sort of slap on the wrist for guilds who disobey the player-agreed-upon rules, if any are made?

45+ people engaging a target just means one guild right now, and in the past week there's been 2-3 instances where zones were pushing over 120 people, so a little clarification on whether it's FFA as soon as it pops if a guild isn't in aggro radius, or whether there will be fill-ins for these instances by GMs or player-made would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: depopping it is fine, but that won't need to keep occurring if some of the holes are patched up.

I hope you're right, because I'd LOVE to come back and start playing again.

thats where the "Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild getting ready to raid Hate for some armor and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing Fear. Basically, don't be a douche bag."

that rule comes into play. Imo if you see someone forming for a target and clearing mobs in the pathway for maestro or inny or something for example, don't try to pull through them, don't try to pass them, just simply wait for them to wipe (if they're on the pure path to them clearly and not clearing ALL trash), or thats just douche bagery if you try to leapfrog them, and from what i gather from this post that pulling shit like that is bannable on first offence?

Definitely running fraps from now on.

Man. Oh man. THIS was why player rules came out before. Then everyone got jacked and said they were too complicated...but I can GUARANTEE you petitions are going to hit the roof, no matter how much you warn people against it.

You still give everyone too much credit. You want them to act like adults, but they are NEVER going to. Human nature, man.

Remember what we all said about camping for days? Crazy...just too crazy to happen.

There's going to be a need for player rules again...I can see it coming. If the guilds have enough fortitude to get together and work things out...it would be beneficial to support those rules. That would limit GM involvement. The players are smart enough to realize what should and shouldn't be done...but the problem has ALWAYS been nitpicking, using gray areas to advantage, and generally a shitstorm of QQ.

The problem with player rules before was they were not supported. Something can't be supported and unenforced. Once the players DO come up with something, post it and forget it. Let the guilds work it out.


I do appreciate what you guys have done though...it makes things much, much better for the server.

Bravo!!!!!!!

Nilbog,

Thank you!