It would be really cool if we could figure out a way to build a server were everyone would be happy and we'd have the biggest population and best battles ;) I say this in earnest. I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGREEE!! AGReeeee!

But yeah while I can totally respect and understand your hardcoreness. I for one like to just float down the river and pick flowers occasionally.

But how one plays the game, is not dependent on the rules of the game. Therefore one can be hardcore with or without item loot. One may be casual with or without it. I'm pretty sure its been done both ways.

Yet I really do agree that item loot increases challenge. Which is semanticly different then casual vs hardcore (in my head). Its like being hard and fast or hard and slow.

I'm starting to get philisophical. ;)

Furthmore you are absolutely correct in single item vs full item is very different also. Single being allot more forgiving and fair. (I neglected to look at it this way)

I was never argueing that item loot was bad. Just trying to point out generalizations in the used analogy. I may have been succesful.

If Discord was brought back one day Ide roll a few toons on it at random occasions.

ia gree with the single item loot thing ^^
lol project 1999 Discord for me would be total hell :p im the dumbass who tends to die alot xD

Can someone please confirm that on Rallos Zek, at least in the early days, if an npc killed you, a pc could still loot you? I know I remember this happening, but I can't prove it. I could be crazy, but I swear I remember always asking my group to "lock my corpse" after we got killed by some mob. I'm pretty sure I remember Cyrux training sgs in oasis and looting people quite a bit... maybe I am completely nuts though.

This is incorrect. I never remember players being able to loot you if an npc kills ya. Although you were able to /consent other players and they could loot everything (later changed to just being able to drag your corpse). This caused a lot of dick moves with people becoming blacklisted. You WERE able to loot weapons and hand held items early days of RZ on a pvp kill though, later changed to just gear.

Developers/GMs read this and take notes: Item loot is without a doubt, the most hardcore PVP mechanic that can be introduced on a server, and has been proven to survive and thrive in PVP communities. (Disregarding stupidly hardcore rulesets such as Discord, that just went full retard, and didn't last very long.)

I see some people saying that "item loot would be the death of the server/population". When there is no evidence that would suggest this. Sullon Zek had the lowest population on live, and they had EXP LOSS in pvp, without item loot. Rallos Zek started it all with being the first pvp server in EQ, and they were a thriving server full of guild wars all throughout it's history. And before someone starts flaming, I know SZ, TZ/VZ all had some badass PVP as well, I participated heavily in SZ particularly. (They were also team based, and thats an entirely different issue) My point is that item loot enriched, not destroyed, the pvp experience. There is actually more evidence to suggest this than there is otherwise.

Just take a look at Ultima Online, arguably one of the best pvp games of all time. Now take a trip down memory lane to some of your old pvp fights on Rallos Zek. (if you are oldschool enough) What made the pvp so memorable and exciting, and sometimes terrifying in both of these games? ITEM LOOT

The potential to lose your gear, completely changes the atmosphere of the game world. It's a sobering concept that changes attitudes, and ultimately is essential in creating the pk/anti-pk environment that we all love.

You all want to relive classic EQ? Well start with making memories, as gay as that sounds. Some of my most unforgettable gaming moments were focused around item loot and guild wars, political turmoil, and backstabbing. Item loot creates the best stories, and great pvp stories attracts new blood to the server. People will hear a story and think about how they want to get in on the fun.

No where else will you be able to loot a Fungi Tunic off anything besides the Myconid Spore King.

No where else will someone get blacklisted and shunned by the community for opportunistic pking a member of their own group to steal a FBSS.

No where else will you see players hastily bagging their gear, hoping not to be blinded before they die.

No where else will you be able to band together with others to take down an overpowered, overtwinked character, and truly make them pay.

No where else will you have an economy that doesn't get too big and out of control and over inflated.

No where else will the pk/anti-pk dynamic exist, other than an item loot server.

No where else do reputations matter more.

No where else will the underdogs stand a chance.


Sorry for the book. Wipe the server clean, start fresh, and start with item loot. It is absolutely essential to FFA pvp, and will save this server, one shiny loot at a time.

no offense but RZ was trash and you know it. We need to lean closer to SZ rules with hard coded teams if you want to see any kind of population increase. FFA PvP servers are out there, this is nothing new. Let's try something that works for once.

You could loot someone if they were killed by another player for a while. Then they changed it to only the person with the killing blow.

Oh hey another let's split the 100 pop server into 3 teams discussion. That would be the best idea. I'll be making the ogre SK.

Item loot WILL kill this server. Who does item loot favor? The post makes it seem like it helps out the little guy giving them a shot @ raid loot they couldn't get on their own. In actual practice however, it will lead to them getting crushed. Nihilum is wearing mainly no drop armor, and it will be even worse with VP. They have trak teeth @ their disposal, conflag wands, etc., the other guys don't. The little guys will get raped with item loot.

Have people also seen how buggy this server still is, particularly in zones such as TT? Do you really want to log into TT, be zone bugged, get PKed, and lose your stuff? The dynamic of this server is too far along to introduce something like item loot at this point, if anything, it will be the biggest recruitment booster for nihilum you ever could put in, for those concerned about that. If you wanted to have an item loot server, the time to do it was @ launch of the server when everyone was on equal footing and people could make their reputations, etc.

Item loot will kill this server without a classic resist set.

Imagine a world where all you had to wear to avoid getting root/blind/stun spammed was a shielding buff, or some cheap MR jewelry or if you were so lucky some no drop with magic resist. It worked, tons of people liked it and then left after PoP ruined the resist system and everything else in PvP (lol safe zones).

The risk vs reward for wearing 120 resist all and being immune to most spells, but if killed, dropped a "mad decent" resist piece like a frog crown?

Your warrior has full hate and a monsoon I think HB? You'd be doing real nice.

To everyone against item loot I say go back to WoW.

To everyone who wants SZ style rules? We need to have 98% more population, no training rules etc.

I don't think Nihilum is going to fear or hate unless a raid mob is up, shaddap.

Well obviously a wipe would be needed and reroll the server with item loot in place. That much is a given. At this point, what difference would a wipe make? The server is dead anyway and only the no lifers will be affected. Its not like we will LOSE players by having a wipe, the no lifers and poop sockers will come back as they always do. To gain a decent population, we must wipe and get it right from the beginning.