I completely agree, really. Hence my earlier statement that the server staff is probably well aware of what will happen and have something in mind. With a lot of game issues I'm certain they'd just shrug and wish the players would work things out for themselves, but this won't be one of them.

Honestly, if a player has their character start off in Faydwer they should just do the kelethin / felwithe mail run from levels 1-9 in a straight line. I know that sounds demented but you're in full control of getting your levels + spending cash without having to rely on the bats and other mobs that will be badly contested. Around level 8 is where things drop off sharply, but 9 will probably be worth it.

mail quests are fine but when you get 9 that means you're screwed because those are the zones that are goign to be hit with bards the hardest.

If you dont wait in line to join one of the 3 or4 groups camping in one of the like 8 "dungeon" zones that exist in those levels, you're going to be out in one of the other 15 zones that are filled with bards and no mobs. BB, Lfay, Karanas, Ro, oasis... the only place you can level is going to be the friggen swamp cus of the water lol

if its a problem there will be no solution beyond nerfing bards...

Someone said there are plenty of zones, but that is not at all true with classic lol you reach max population around 1300 players in classic, and by max I mean a pond group in Mistmoor, a canyon group in misstmore, and a nook group (thats that 3 spawn under the tower) in mistmoore.. a GY group, a Canion2 group, a CE group, and then everyone is too afraid to go in the castle except to pull or to maybe start a group in the garden, even though its been 7 years and theres nothing in there to be afraid of except adventure.

Yeah, i mean, IF bards are a problem, there is no homebrew solution.

To the unclassic ZEM id rather nerf bards to make them behave the way they behaved in classic than have unclassic ZEM! But that's just me! :cool:

good thing theres AIM right?

A bard can swarm kite crushbone naked at lvl 2 if I don’t run into any shamans looping around the castle... I can swarm kite the unrest yard naked with a drum at lvl 5... once you get selos it becomes really easy... and yea 3 dmg doesn’t sound like much but x25 it’s a 75g per tic mana free dot that I can play endlessly that has -100mr effect so reds die too. Not to mention at lvl 8 you can buy a 4gold lute that doubles your damage. At lvl 10 bard is doing 220ish dmg per tic with a full kite... at 18 that bard is doing 550dmg per tic on a full kite without instrument swapping. It is insanely Powerful once you master it. You will never get hit never have to stop to med or heal and can kill as fast as you can find enough mobs.

I know you are knowledgeable about bards Wallicker and I respect what you're saying. I would love to watch and see how you avoid getting bash and instakilled by the Legos by the castle because I know that's where I would fail miserably. I think it is absolutely safe to say though that you are not the average player when it comes to playing bards, you're much better at it than most. I seriously doubt the average jackass would be able to pull off what you're talking about.

That said, my one question still remains. How at 3 damage per tick (or even 6 if it's doubled with a lute) are you going to stop people from peeling mobs off your stack while you're running around a place like CB? How can you stop say a Wiz from nuking your mobs and taking the xp or a pet class like a mage necro from sticking their pets on them and stealing xp that way?

See that's the only reason why I'm even arguing about this is because people are making it sound like bards are going to keep everyone else stuck at level 1 with no mobs to kill to advance. I don't think it's possible if the other players don't have a problem with stealing their mobs because a full group of players can easily out-damage a single bard's PBAE DoT and do damage > 50% thus getting the xp for the mob. Feel free to point out the flaw in what I'm saying if there is one.

i played a ranger through classic and kunark. as far as the hybrid exp penalty exclusion, the biggest problem with it was how much misinformation was rampantly spread about it.

what people heard: "hybrids have a 40% exp penalty that applies to groups"

what people thought: "every mob we kill has its experience cut in half and then divided amongst all of us"

what it actually meant: "a level 43 ranger is taking as much experience as a level 45 warrior."


the devs are my idols and i cannot thank them enough for giving me my favorite game of all time for a decade, but i really wish they would have put out an official PSA about the reality of the exp penalty that caused so much anti-social behavior from its misinterpretation.

Think outside the box, or in this case, outside the dungeon. In open air locations like butcherblock, Oasis, etc, a bard can grab a bunch of mobs and conveniently run them to a remote location within the zone where they won't be bothered and slowly kill them there. The average player wanting to peel some off isn't going to have the chance, or simply won't be bothered to constantly move to wherever the bard decides to start killing.

See - Lake of Ill Omen. Now apply this to multiple open air zones and multiple bards working them.

I am thinking like outside the dungeon lol. I can see where it would be an issue in the outdoor zones but as I said earlier, it's easy enough to avoid the outdoors zones if you want to.

I should probably state that I have no issue with them nerfing the number of mobs bards can hit with their AE. I just don't think it's going to be a bard apocalypse when Green launches. At this point though, both sides have had their say and it will be up for time to tell who was right.

The only thing for certain is that you guys will argue/lawyer/bicker/bitch about anything