Frustration over lack of clarity from CSR on contested Epic mobs. Solve before Green
 

Aside from the inconsistency of what is Classic here, there is one issue that I am particularly displeased about, where between players and staff it has never been properly agreed or communicated. And that is Verina Tomb and Drozlin have always fell into a grey area concerning whether they are camps or FTE.

The general consensus and approach has been leaning more towards whomever attacks first ala FTE regardless of whether they have a shout message.

Regardless, in EverQuest classic, the understanding for any mob is that should someone else attack it, then you stay off of it until a condition applies :

• The person dies/their group dies
• The person zones
• The person goes link dead

Threads on these NPCs led on to discussion, rants, complaints and arguments over :

1. Whether it was ok to 'stall' after attacking

The view by players has been yes, despite being somewhat 'cheese' it is ok, after all you tagged it.
This allowed people to claim the mob until you could obtain reinforcements.

The only caveat(player agreed?) was that the tag had to be an offensive spell and/or the damage had to be continuous. E.g. you could not simply root it until help arrived.

This was met with some rebuttal that the same could be said for a camp such as Ancient cyclops. Yet in that situation and any other camped mob, that the agreed approach is if you cannot handle the mob after five minutes you should concede(player agreed?)

2. Whether it is actually a camp and what defines a camp

I've never treated anything as a 'camp' unless it has a forced trigger, such as a PH which required you to produce an action to obtain a reaction. If this was not the case, then no one would ever contest camp presence, and there would be no need for rules such as only being allowed to 'hold' one camp at a time.

Additionally, FTE would have never been introduced for high value targets.



If Verina and Drozlin is a camp, then we have potential issues:

It is virtually perma camped by level 1 face trackers. Is the idea that we just let them log in while at work, leave Gina running and hold the camp for four days and not maintain any active presence? Effectively AFK camping?


Additionally, the view has always been was that if you brought your own level capable character, you had a much better opportunity to not only engage, though also win the race.

Which leads on to what made Verina and Drozlin not a camp :

• It's openly contested
• Players race to it to be the first to attack it
• There's no place holder or trigger

These should be hints, and furthermore I cannot find any Enchanter (except those that would benefit from calling it a camp, when it suits them) whom has ever treated these mobs as camps. We know this because the majority of threads on them are complaints of the way the mobs are setup as contested. And comments made in discussions are of the sentiment of how in their view it would be more fair to be a camp. The pain of face tracking wouldn't be as bad, as you wouldn't have to worry about being beaten to the mob despite you putting in the five/seven days of effort.

While I don't have to personally worry about these monsters any longer, I do sympathize with others and after nearly nine years, I am continuously aggravated by the lack of clarity and consistency about these and similar NPCs.


Now there's been murmurs that the new generation of staff are treating this as a camp, where the majority of players are(were? did this conveniently change recently to suit one group?) not.
What they don't then reiterate is that even if it was a camp, if you attack a mob first, persons should not be attacking your mob, that is in itself simple kill stealing - this is not a grey area.


Whatever the ruling is can we have an official decision, communication and a new sticky on the forum that lists these and every other mob with their CURRENT camp/FTE status in black and white.

Now would be a grand time to establish this ahead of the release of Green, for what should be obvious reasons.

Agreed clarity needed ffs
 

I’ve been putting in countless hours camping for my enchanter epic. I need clarity NOW please.

I received a ruling directly from a Senior Server Guide that Verina Tomb and Vessel Drozlin are campable targets just like Sir Lucan and Hadden. It stated they are not FTE and have apparently never been FTE.

Tbf a clearer policy on this would result in fewer staff petitions.

verina has been the same for like 8 years dude, come on now

No longer relevant to me, but do you happen to have a screenshot or log of this? Lucan is a fixed spawn and has two mobs nearby that must be cleared to be "holding" the camp. Verina and Vessel do not have mobs to clear and their spawn time varies considerably.

Both of those bozos have always been FTE, and I've never seen someone try to say either was a camp.

As any enchanter who has ever even considered obtaining their epic, both Verina and Drozlin have been understood to be FTE and to my knowledge it has always been that way. People make tracking characters, prepark friends and batphone guildies just like any other FTE situation.

It seems that the only argument that she's not FTE is that she doesn't have raid-mob status and emit a zone-wide emote. The argument that "she doesnt scream FTE, therefore shes not FTE" is pedantic at best and miserably short-sided at worst.

If she is in-fact a camp, several questions really need to answered explicitly or risk torrents of petitions every spawn.

-When can you start "camping?" Can you start your camp when she's not even in her window?

-Can you camp her on a level 1 alt? What level can you start camping her?

-Can you kill her and choose not to relinquish the camp...just like any other? If so, how many cycles can you camp? Can you have characters devoted to selling looting rights and never intending to leave the camp...in essence cutting off that piece from anyone who doesn't pay?

Those questions must be answered explicitly if she is not FTE, otherwise the future of blue/green only holds misery for enchanters.

I think them being treated as camps opens up all sorts of issues like you mentioned, however to help cover one of those, you can't hold a camp you are unable to contest/kill the ph/mob when it spawns. So camping lvl 1 alts would not secure the camp. You'd need to have level appropriate toon(s) to engage asap on spawn, with the intent of killing the mob. Now yes, enchanters can solo VT, so it could be considered camped in that case, or if 2+ people are there, etc.

Best of luck, camping with lvl 1 alts and going FTE route seemed clearer, not looking forward to enchanters having to pay camp hoarders to get their epic, since so many people are willing to sit AFK with GINA triggers to tell them when it spawns.