About red 1.0
 

We all speak about a red 2.0 and wich ruleset would make it thrive.

Can we all agree that actual red 1.0 ruleset is not that bad and that it would thrive if it was wiped¿? We all know this server didnt do better cos of the exp loss at the start, the numbers when velious launched wasnt that bad.
With actual ruleset, even if not perfect, a restart would put us on 300 average or more during classic kunark and velious.

i would bet for it.

i know restart is not happening tho, just wanted to point it out

I agree, I actually love the current red ruleset. If a new server had that from the start I'd be all over it.

Yeah, the only thing that fucked up red imo is that first year of xp loss. We started with 600 players on launch (i remember cuz it struck me, like wow looking good) and then by the time devs reacted, removed it, it was single digit pop at nite. Way too late. And a month or 2 later xp was nerfed and half the pop that we gained with removal of xp loss quit. We would maybe get these 600 players for launch, maybe more with people on blue and green bored with the raid/camps work on pve servers and this time, if the server isnt a grief fest like red was for its first year, keep at least part of that.

Realistically, 1.0 setup is good, doesnt require any additional work from devs and should probably be what they go for in a new server. The only thing that sucks with the setup is people will never get to see what a thriving Gfay looks like. You need item loot for that. But item loot needs a revamp if were going to make it work for 2022 and i dont see it happening here.

Teams requires a bunch of meddling to balance things out and dont think devs (bless their hearts) are up for it. It would be fun to try for sure but its a risky gamble where 1.0 setup is a safe bet. P99 never got a pvp server that worked (first with xp loss, then after with its crippled pop) and it would be bad IMO to throw that chance out on a risky setup.

There were three things that fucked red99 over from the start, in no particular order:

1) Exp loss. I didn't personally mind it, but apparently a lot of people did. I think it's less about the fact that you lose exp in PvP and more about the way it encourages edgelords to go out of their way to grief people because they get off on the knowledge that the other guy lost exp.

2) Horrible custom resist system that completely changed how PvP works. I only played during classic so I don't know if it ever got changed down the line, but it was complete garbage in the beginning. Melee basically wasn't viable because CC would land fairly often even through high MR, and nuking classes were grotesquely overpowered because FR/CR basically just did nothing even if you had 120-150 in them.

3) Absolutely no enforcement of the rules, allowing Holocaust to train people all day until they had no choice but to stop playing because they were literally prevented from doing anything. I recall that some smaller guild managed to kill a Holocaust officer, and Holo's response was to follow that guild around 24/7 and train them endlessly until they genuinely had to quit the server because there's no way to protect yourself from dedicated, systematic training. There will need to be an active GM (or a few).

Resist system on red has proven to be the best of any/all pvp servers.

Agreed present resists don’t feel stupid / bad

Zero pop does

Well, it was trash at launch and drove a lot of players away, so it's still mentioned as one of the reasons for the server's lack of success. The way it worked at launch, no amount of MR would give you more than like 75% chance to resist spells, and root didn't have a chance to break so it would literally always be a full duration root. It was completely unplayable for melee classes. And FR/CR basically just didn't do anything, so wizards, mages and druids could just nuke anyone into the ground. If they changed these things, that's good, but it definitely ruined early PvP.

It wasn’t a reason the server failed. Even after hitting 0 pop the server ended up bouncing back boasting numbers of 350+ for velious, so stop using that as an excuse when you didn’t even know it improved.

It is the reason the server failed. To be fair i dont know what the composition of the server is right now, toxicity-wise but if all the normal people wouldnt have quit the server wouldnt have become such a cesspool. It became full of these griefy nerds because the way the server was setup up (xp loss) distilled the pop to its griefest. Why i quit was a combination of factors but after finally succeeding in pushing for xp loss removal, sirken goes in and nerfs the xp in pve causing another drop in pop. The last drop was basically the lack of trust i had in the staff to care about the pop numbers for people who remained. Like, why put all this time in a server if staff is going to go out of their way to not care about how fragile the population is.

At least with a restart at 600 pop, with no easy way to make people quit, theres a chance that we could remain a long time around those numbers. If they can make teams work, youll always have the team and you naturally gather when another group invades your zone.

It is the reason the server failed. To be fair i dont know what the composition of the server is right now, toxicity-wise but if all the normal people wouldnt have quit the server wouldnt have become such a cesspool. It became full of these griefy nerds because the way the server was setup up (xp loss) distilled the pop to its griefest. I wouldnt call it a success that the server finally got numbers for its last expansion (i really doubt the 350 figure too)

Why i quit was a combination of factors but after finally succeeding in pushing for xp loss removal, sirken goes in and nerfs the xp in pve causing another drop in pop. The last drop (for me and others im sure) was basically the lack of trust i had in the staff to care about the pop numbers for people who remained. Like, why put all this time in a server if staff is going to go out of their way to not care about how fragile the population is. Watching them leave the server in limbo now just confirms my initial hunch.

At least with a restart at 600 pop, with no easy way to make people quit, theres a chance that we could remain a long time around those numbers. If they can make teams work, youll always have the team and you naturally gather when another group invades your zone.