MUST READ: XP penalty facts and Ranger/SK hate
 

A Primer:
XP penalties

So I have a half elf ranger and a Human SK among my many alts. All the people I play with regularly know I know the class and can play to its strengths and help plug holes where they exist, and actually advocate adding me to a group if they see I'm LFG and a melee or tank is looking for a rep, or they just need more.

One thing that makes me pull my hair out is the absolute ignorance that the community at large has about XP penalties.

Example 1:
Group consists of:
1. Human Pally (-40%)
2. High Elf Pally (-40%)
3. Troll War (-10%)
4. Ogre Shammy (-15%)
5. Halfling Clr (+5%)

Won't add a human SK because of xp penalty (-40%)

Example 2:
Group consists of:
1. Human Monk (-20%)
2. Half elf Bard (-40%)
3. Troll SK (-65%)
4. High elf CLR (0%)
5. Wood Elf Dru (0%)

Won't add a Half Elf Ranger because of xp penalty (-40%)

Seriously why can't this myth die with facts you can look at by clicking on a link?
If it's that you don't like the individual or had a problem in the past... use that as your excuse.
This XP penalty boogie man needs to be left back 1999 with your soiled pj's.

-Vayl
_________________________
Race/Class Experience Modifiers

Troll -20%
Iksar -20%
Ogre -15%
Barbarian -5%
Halfling +5%

By Class:
Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%
Monk -20%
Wizard / Magician / Enchanter / Necromancer -10%
Rogue +9%
Warrior +10%
Exp modifiers are multiplied not added. E.g. Troll SK would be 1.4 (class) x 1.2 (race) = 1.68 or a 68% penalty.

Server Notes:

GREEN: All experience modifiers above are in place. Class experience penalties will be removed at the appropriate time in the Classic Timeline.

Agreed.
So sick of trying to explain this to people. Actually got turned down by 3 different groups tonight, one in MM (with a pally and a bard), one in Unrest (group didn't want to replace their pally that was leaving cause *ranger*) and one in LGuk simply cause, "ewww ranger steals my precious pixelssss.
Give it a rest.
- encopitt

Can you elaborate on your argument? You didn't include the levels of the players and the content (ie: camp) being fought.

If we assume people are cold and calculating, then they want to maximize xp/hr and don't factor value-add for socializing. Let's analyze from that min-max perspective.

If everyone is relatively the same level, then their experience pools will differ greatly (Hybrids will have accrued more experience to reach the same level due to penalty). Borrowing from your referenced article: "Group with people who have similar xp totals to you". Therein lies the problem.

If the players with a higher penalty have similar xp totals to a group of non-hybrids, they will be lower level compared to the content. Ever see how fast healers OOM when hybrid tanks are significantly lower level compared to the mobs? Or how significant a level advantage has in overall dps? That's purely mechanics.

Do you choose a group of similarly leveled players, with the hybrids taking a larger chunk of the pie? Or do you choose a group of similar xp totals, where everyone takes an equal chunk of the pie, but the group performs poorly?

Let's discuss group composition: Ideally, you want 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 cc, the rest as dps.
In your example, Group 1 already has two tanks (both paladins). Adding an SK isn't ideal since the role has already been filled. The group is probably waiting for a pure dps class.
In Group 2 you could be a dps, but you take a larger chunk of exp from the pie compared to a rogue or even human monk. They already have a puller (monk/bard) and a snare (bard/druid).

Honestly, I can see why they passed in Group1. I can sympathize with them passing on Group2, but if you're as good as you claim, there's an argument to be made there. It's always a joy to play with talented players. Unfortunately, they aren't usually the ones explaining about exp penalties.

In the end, I prefer to solo because it's faster and wait until max level to group. We all play differently. That's how I play.

Both groups just wanted more DPS. They clearly don't have problems with hybrids since they both invited two already, one with two paladins for some reason, and the other even including a troll SK.

The first group has three fucking tanks, they need damage which your SK most assuredly is not.

The second group could have added you but to really maximize an already mostly solid lineup they want pure DPS. Ranger's greatest asset is for pulling, and second best contribution is tanking, snare and root parking third which they can already do without you and also have superior CC from the bard. They already have a monk to pull and an SK to tank so they need damage to fully optimize. Rangers get a lot of misinformed and undue mockery by green players, but they definitely aren't top tier DPS right now. I can't blame these guys for holding out and sticking with the five they have.

TLDR: stop crying OP, sounds like its you who doesn't understand a few things about making a group.

One day I entered Unrest on my twink Warrior. There were 4 people in the group. They told my Warrior they were leaving it at 4 so they could maximize XP. He was an Ogre Warrior so the xp penalty was extremely small. People are just this way...

Welcome to Norrath. Enjoy your stay. No, you can't join my group as a paladin or ranger because they can only be puny races and I don't want dead weight.

Consider creating a horrible class in Velious when you don't debuff your group. Hope this helps.

Just being a stickler here but your troll warrior, ogre shaman, and troll SK bonuses and penalty numbers aren't correct. Multiply the two together, not add. I.e. Troll Shadowkight 1.2 and 1.4, or troll warrior .9*1.2

N00bs. All of my SKs are +50 exp bonus because i'm uber l33t.

i think its more that you're a ranger for your standard p99 green aspie

Yep part of the game. It has only made my journey to 50 as a ranger that much better. Every time I was skipped over or denied a group, I got a little tougher.

Let the weak enjoy their easy to play core shit classes. We will continue to be the few, the proud, the mediocre.

Sounds like you don't fully understand group composition. You would have more of a point if both groups had limited amounts of exp pentalities, but it looks like neither of your classes mesh well with the groups in question. It's great you're a good SK/Ranger, but that doesn't offset class limitations.

Why on earth would you invite a SK to a group that has a PAL, PAL, WAR composition with no enchanter/bard for mana regen?

Never understood the menatality of adding someone to a group that can't cary it's weight in a group or boggles down the group as a whole all for the "social" aspect of the game.