For a Shaman who wants to melee level, do I need to be Ogre/Troll?
 

Hello everyone, I'm considering making a Shaman as an alt, but I want to play it mostly as melee character who debuffs the mobs, and buffs herself etc. Rather than the Root + Dots playstyle, since that's currently what I do mostly on my Druid.

I was looking at the wiki, and the melee stat difference between Iksar / Troll / Ogre, are pretty big. For example, Ogre starts with 130 Str and 127 Sta, whereas a Iksar only has 70 Str and 75 Sta.

With such a huge difference in Str and Stam, does that mean it will be much harder to melee effectively on an Iksar, compared to an Ogre? Am I basically forced to go Ogre or Troll, if I want to level efficiently by mostly meleeing?

Thanks!

No, you don't have to pick a specific race. In the near term your damage doesn't scale well and in the long term you have tremendous statistic buff spells anyhow. Difference between them in melee is pretty slim unless you really hate being bashed. The largest pro-Ogre proponent on this forum confirms in his own testing that the Ogre's advantage is not more than a few per cent at best--not enough to get bent out of shape over unless you're determined to min-max as much as possible. All shamans will supplement their melee damage with spell damage and (later) pet damage because Shaman melee post-level 20 is rather weak due to priest hit tables and no double attack. At the end all shamans will solo while in melee since you don't have a choice against things which summon. They all get the job done.

Danth

Ahh this sounds like the start of another shaman racial debate thread. Shaman melee will wear out in the 30s or so so the race isn't too important there, but I'd probably roll ogre because if you continue to play your shaman with a solo play style eventually you may hit 60 when you'll appreciate the ogre frontal stun immunity for solo stuff.

I just don't think I could handle being an Ogre or a Troll lol, they're just too ugly, and HUGE.

Also by melee, I didn't mean like doing mostly melee damage. I meant more like, debuffing and DoTing the enemy, then tanking / meleeing it down, with my pet biting it too. At least, that's what I saw other Shamans doing, and it looked pretty fun and active. I'm sure the actual melee damage of a Shaman is nothing compared to like Monk, Rogue, or Ranger etc. But I just like the idea of being in melee range, and swinging my weapon. I feel like with that play style, I'd actually feel like I was in a fight, rather than just Root + DoT then sit and wait =/.

I don't care too much about min / maxing. However, I also don't want screw myself so badly stat wise, that when I swing, I am doing like under 20dmg a swing, whereas if I was an Ogre or Troll, I'd be doing over 30-40+ etc. I don't know exactly how all the stats, dmg, and math works out. But from what Danth said, it doesn't sound like it would be too much of a problem.

If that's the case, then maybe I will go Iksar after all.

But before I actually decide that or not, are there any other reason why I shouldn't go Iksar? Maybe Barbarian?

You really shouldn’t be worrying about melee dmg on a shaman. They’re not a melee class and it will fizzle out very quickly. Yes ogres should do a bit more with higher strength but it’s basically irrelevant as shaman melee is worse than a bard and you can buff strength as well for weight issues. Iksars can’t wear the jbb(jaundiced bone bracer). It’s not class defining but it’s a great/fun item and if you plan to sit back and let your pet tank you might want to consider having a barbarian for mana free nukes eventually. .

I completely get the desire to do this. Hell, I wanted to play a "Battle Cleric" so badly I twinked one with a Fungi Tunic, Velium Crystal Staff, and a decent haste item! And on my Shaman (my first character here), the one and only "twink item" I was given by a friend was a Barbarian Spiritist's Hammer. This was back before the proc nerf, so you better believe I was running around meleeing with my Shaman! :)

But, as someone who has tried to play two Priest classes as if they were melee, I promise this: it simply doesn't work past level 20 or so. Priests (even ones with great proccing weapons) simply don't do enough melee damage after the n00b levels. Your fights will just get longer and longer, the higher the mobs' level gets; at some point even a Fungi won't be enough to keep you alive anymore ... but even before that you'll switch to using spells, simply because melee damage is so slow.

Also keep in mind, Shaman slow sucks at low levels. At level 20 you're not even reducing their attack speed by a quarter: even a slowed mob still does 75+% of its damage. So if you try to melee, you'll wind up spending tons of mana on near-worthless slows, roots to take breaks from damage, and heals to fix that damage. And you'll quickly see that it makes much more sense to root the mob or let your pet tank it, not take any damage at all, and then use the mana for DoTs.

So the real answer here is YOUR RACE DOES NOT MATTER! If a Fungi won't keep you alive in melee from 20-60, you better believe the (much lower) Troll regeneration won't either. No matter what race you pick, you will stop meleeing ... so embrace that and pick whatever race you want.

P.S. At latter levels Shaman certainly do melee ... but not because they're doing meaningful melee damage. Once your slow starts reducing melee damage by more than half, you may want to tank mobs again (eg. because they summon, break root frequently, etc.). But again, the melee damage won't matter ... and neither will your race.

Always pick the race you like the best. "Ideal" choice does nothing for you if the character goes un-used because you hate the thing. If you like Iksar, pick Iksar.

Main things to watch out for with Iksar is they can't wear Jaundiced Bone (mainly people care about the bracer for the click damage spell) and can't slam. Lack of slam makes spellcasters a little bit more dangerous than usual. Iksars also come with their usual poor factions in old-world cities. Iksar does the job if you want racial regeneration but don't want to be a Troll. Iksar AC bonus should offer a slight bonus to a Shaman who likes to be in melee a lot, call it a consolation prize. You will not notice any large difference in melee damage dealt regardless of race. An Ogre might hit for a couple points more during the teens. It is not significant enough to pick a race for that reason. An Iksar shaman might get encumbered from loot once in awhile at low levels when your STR buff is weak and you have no weight reduction bags, but no more so than any of a dozen other classes in this game and you get better STR buffs soon enough anyhow.

Loramin is right, there will be a period during the middle levels where staying in melee will kind of get annoying. As he says, it comes back later on. The wife's Shaman is very much capable of solo'ing in melee range if it wants to, albeit its melee damage is so low (using the Spear of Fate) that it doesn't particularly notice whether or not it actually turns attack on.

Danth

Melee shaman is style over substance, so the only choice is Barbarian. Beat hat or full blown Polar bear monster. Move to resolved.

ogre is the best melee overall

Can someone tell me why people talk about shamans tanking all the time?

Like, I don't see any stats that make a shaman more of a tank than a cleric.