Project 1999 - Game Mechanics: Warrior aggro procs are probably wrong

First, I want to emphasize that I can't be 100% sure about all this. I may be setting myself up for another classic beatdown by Nilbog. That disclaimer aside, here goes

The Warrior epic proc should be an AC/ATK debuff

I was having a conversation with Vonhammer (Arteker on these forums, hopefully I can get him to post here) and he said that the warrior epic was upgraded in early Luclin. There is considerable evidence that the original proc was an AC/ATK debuff (I mean, the spell text is 'weakened' which certainly doesn't match a +hate proc).

http://web.archive.org/web/200208271...&pg=1&sortby=1

Quote:

Originally Posted by everlore

EFFECT: Rage of Vallon ( Target debuffer spell that reduces HP/AC/ATK by 100/40/11 for about a 2min period )

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2630

Quote:

Originally Posted by allakhazam Jan 2001

Effect: Rage of Vallon DMG 100 ATK -40 AC -35

Quote:

Originally Posted by allakhazam Feb 2001

Rage of Vallon
Decrease Current Hitpoints by 100 (L1)
Lowers you on the target's hate list by 500

as per the spdat.eff file

Quote:

Originally Posted by allakhazam jun 2001

The point of the proc is to raise hate since warriors had a much harder time to taunt in Kunark post 50. And you're not reading the spdat correctly, for spells that lower you on aggro it says Negative numbers, not positive. For example, Jolt/Cinder Jolt lower your aggro and the spdat says "Lower you on hate list by -500", whereas Rage of Vallon says "Lower you on hate list by 500". It's just bad wording from EqCaster.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...hp/t-6905.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel Warrior 4/2004

Rage of Zek - 500 (used to have ac debuff)
Rage of Vallon - 500 (used to have ac debuff)

http://www.castle-grounds.co.uk/eq/epiclink.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldschool

The Proc is Fire based, and the effect reduces the targets AC by 12, as well as providing a magic DD of 175 damage. The AC Debuff lasts 3 minutes.

The Blade of Stategy Proc is also Fire based, and is 100DD as well reducing a Mobs ATK by 40 and their AC by 11 for 2 minutes.

The Blade of Tactics is a right clickable effect, which increases Dex by 40, ATT by 30, and AC by 12. This also lasts 2 minutes.

Conclusion: The information from the last link looks by far the best to me. -40ATK and -11AC makes far more sense then the reverse (40AC is a huge increase in damage). My guess is that the original intent was +hate (as evidenced in the spell file) but they didn't get it implemented in time so they went with the AC debuff.

Most procs (and by extension spells in general) are generating far too much hate

I did the following test with Cucumbers and Coeur (and even Dagorn for a bit). Our method was: Warrior 1 would attack the mob until he procced. Warrior 2 would then attack with nonproccing weapons until the mob turned to face him. We added up the number of primary and secondary attacks, weighted them by damage bonus+weapon damage, and any difference should be the hate value of the proc. Our results:

Code:

Warrior A                                Warrior B        APH        APD        ASH        ASD        AHATE        BPH        BPD        BSH        BSD        BHATE        Diff        Spell             Estimate                                                                

Epic+Star of the Guardian        Dagas+Ixi Sceptre        22        14        21        14        844        46        11        31        15        1477        633        Rage of Vallon        600                                                                

Yak Scim+Ixi Sceptre              GuardianStar+Epic        14        8        0        15        266        28        14        14        14        896        630        Ykesha                575                                                                

Veridix+Ixi Sceptre                 Dagas+Ixi Sceptre        27        13        16        15        888        56        11        26        15        1622        734        Force Shock        679                                                                

SarnakWarhammer+Shield                 Ixi Sceptre+Epic        84        9        0        0        1680        56        15        37        14        1974        294        Stun             250                                                                

Malevolent RB+Ixi Sceptre        Dagas+Ixi Sceptre        16        13        9        15        519        47        11        19        15        1319        800        Froglok Poison        750                                                                

Yak Scimitar+Shield                Ixi Sceptre+Epic        29        8        0        0        551        27        15        31        15        1167        616        Ykesha            575                                                                

2x Disease Cloud                    Dagas+Ixi Sceptre        0        0        0        0        0        39        11        18        15        1128        1128        Disease Cloud        550                                                                

2x Shadow Vortex                   Dagas+Ixi Sceptre        0        0        0        0        0        40        11        16        15        1120        1120        Shadow Vortex        550                                                                

SarnakWarhammer+Shield                 Ixi Sceptre+Epic        10        9        0        0        200        19        15        13        14        676        476        Stun                 400

So for example on the first row I had 22 primary hits and 21 secondary hits; Cucumbers had 46 primary hits and 31 secondary hits. The difference in hate was about 600. These values in general seem substantially higher than what is reported on the forums:

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...hp/t-6905.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel Warrior 4/2004

The relative amount of hate that stuns generate was derived from many hours of testing stun agro from pally stun spells (the unknown variable) to SK hate spells (the known constant). I forget who did the testing now, but the evidence was conclusive and can be easily reproduced. They where able to come up with ~450 hate for a stun, which also seems to match the "feel" of a stun proc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel Warrior 4/2004

ac debuffs should also be added around 400

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...?t=1157&page=2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel Warrior 6/2003

Slow is second only to Stun for hate spells (that aren't pure hate)

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...ead.php?t=2057

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel Warrior 7/2003

I would say, from best(top) to worst(bottom)

- Hate (EB, TB, etc)
- Stun
- Slow
- Debuff (-AC, -STR etc)
- Snare (Snare or darkness line)
- Blind
- Lifetap
- DD
- DoT

Conclusion: Based on this I think we should see stun=450, poison counter = 150 per, debuffs 400.

Right now Ykesha stuns seem to be 500, while pure stuns are 400. Poison counters seem to be 225-250 which is extremely high. And debuffs are 550 which again seems much too high. Enchanters and shaman may actually be able to live after slowing something!

Major HT to cucumbers for helping me dig up some links and run the tests.