I keep suggesting people watch Sirken's stream. You would understand why this won't happen.

Part of the challenge for a lot of players (especially on this server of veteran players) is doing more with less. Creating this list will prevent smaller groups the opportunity to challenge themselves.

<3 Tara bro

That's where I have to disagree, as that's what the "or otherwise keep occupied" language referred to. DA stalling was absolutely in reference to that, but has since changed to a valid raid strat. Cucumbers has it right, the list just needs to be updated to reflect the current raid rules.

Believe it or not, Tiggles once had the same idea as you. He suggested it on Sirken's stream. It was promptly shot down by Sirken for 2 reason. It discourages doing more with less, and it encourages poopsocking.

People talk about this, but honestly, when was the last time ANY of the listed mobs was killed with less than the number i listed? In fact, i'd be willing to bet that the thresholds listed were never broken on this server, by anybody. Not because people can't do it, but because of the competition and the fact that guilds can't exclude people from kills.

It's fine that people keep suggesting that they have skill and that they can do less with more. But you won't be able to beat the top guilds unless you play their game, and their game is numbers.

Also, if you find any of the said mobs up and you want to try them without the "required minimum", you can still do it. You just won't get an FTE shout.

We did VS with 14 with the most god awful lag people were ghosting all over the place, i dont know how healers kept me alive

The thresholds that i listed are minimal. Do ANY of those mobs with the numbers i listed and you'll get mad props. Those mobs will never get done with numbers less than those, at least until Velious.

As for the poopsocking reason, give me a fucking break. Having 40+ people on standby ready to answer batphones within 20 seconds is just as bad as 20 semi afk dudes poopsocking.

From what I've gathered, all this controversy has to do with 2 TMO beating 10 FE/IB on FTE for VS, and then stalling until the rest of their force showed up. You have 2 people in your guild, what's to prevent you from doing the same thing?

Come on. Variance just replaced one fucked up situation with another. It reminds me of Major Payne breaking thumbs.

<3