I'd put Shaman near the top in the #4 position I posted earlier, next to Ranger's Swiftwind and Warrior's Blade of Strategy. No guild or group really cares if you have your Shaman epic. Clerics though.

Soloing group content isn't 100% of the game.

blazing vambs are nice in a smaller setting but in raids where we should always have access to a mage, or AT LEAST a druid, they will have much better DS for the tank :)

I think this is a crucial distinction in thinking about eq's epics. I know from an enchanter's perspective, it is why I was part of the protest on the effect once it was discovered (had 60 and VoG already when it was solved), and refused to get it, and will also never get it here on p99. If I have to tell you why a buff stick pisses off an enchanter, you do not understand the class. We wanted some kind of effect that impacted combat -- a better mem blur, an unresistable stun (with a high reuse time of course), or a slow to free up a combat slot.

But a manaless buff? A lot of us saw the writing on the wall when the epic got solved: They have run out of ideas about what to do with the enchanter class, and in fact want to unwind what our cc role is and shift us to buffers.

Velious then proved us right. Fuck the buff stick. Really.

Sadly, what should have been the epic won't ever be on p99. Notice what it is named, btw:

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/e/3/e36...a06ee222d0.png

the most class defining epic is the neckbeard's poopsock.

To be fair that is true. But on blue, anything else, raiding included is only 0.001% of the game.

Its just a totally different play style, completely new avenues that were not available are now available...

soloing group content isnt 100% of the game, but things you can do with your shaman changes that much once you get an epic.

To me no other class 'changes' once the epic is obtained, some minor roll changes in a raid for bard sure, ill grant it that. But for a shaman the whole class changes once you get an epic, totally different class altogether with rather than without an epic.

Granted in sky, youre going to do the same things I know, but come on did you make your shaman to sit and buff people on raids? I dont think so.

Shaman, biggest change from epic, ergo most class defining epic.

I think that's uh.. yes. Yes, that is why people make shamans. To buff people, yes.

Nope

Hey clellan, role red

Nope.