You're telling me you were in fear for 3 hours while cazic was up and no other guild showed interest until you had it cleared?

Yeah.... I call.

The best part about it is the hypocrisy that goes along with this. They're doing this in the name of equality and fairness, but are going to force or blacklist guilds that don't want to participate in what they believe to be fair. :rolleyes:

Actually the GM who went rogue on Terris-Thule summoned anyone who was level 60 and online at the time regardless of the guild they were in. There was little or no raid related drama on that server at that time either. Nor am I aware of any group of sociopathic professional grief players and serial trainers existing on Terris-Thule - it was actually quite civil, raiding disputes were rare, the need for GM intervention was even rarer.

P.S.
I was one of those summoned into VP and I was never on Karana.

I stand corrected.

Two things to say:

First, there is enough of a hardcore population here that a rotation would probably net more loss than you would gain in amount of players on this server. Or you would have people down GM throats 24/7 (See: Inglorious Basterds, Pre-Plane of Hate release. See Divinity, Pre Plane of hate release.) <---[Edit] Probably not as much divinity, but the rotation included PoFear gear clearing, and they wanted theirs, and broke into fear just before the hate release. It also wasn't a secret that they were looking to raid. Point is, its not easy on the gm's for a rotation because without a concrete way to get in, and without anyone to police that concrete way of getting in, you hold other guilds out. Why join <new guild A> when Ib, Divinity, and DA are eating up the planes and no one else can get in?

Edit2: If its not GM enforced, there will be no order, especially when Velious releases, or when new keys for VP are acquired. And the GM's want nothing to do with policing our raiding system atm.

Second: Wait for kunark, content will open up. Trust me. two or even three guilds cannot be at the same pl;aces at once while trying to level and cockblock the other guilds out of gear to keep them down. Targets, not just old world bosses, will free up. Just position yourselves in good spots, and your gtg.

Third: didn't think there would be a third, but if you really want a shot at bosses, plana few nights a week for people to be available, and just watch the trackers. Chances are, if there is a tracker in zone, a mob is imminent or semi-imminent. Put your raid force their and be available for a few hours. Then it's best of luck to you and your skilled players.

Edit3: there really isnt any poopsocking going on, just guilds that can kill shit and they arew killing it, and a small tracking force that helps and rotates in. Fun gear clears when spots to clear are available.

Your evilness is legendary ~ :p


Oh, and Virtuosos, I am pretty sure I <3 you. Your posts are always spot-on.

Any rotation if it somehow materialized would have to be player enforced in order to remain classic.

The nonsense that occurred during the server reset debacle last week demonstrates the need for a rotation. All would benefit.

While I'm amenable to the idea of a rotation, let's be honest and admit the only players who would benefit in any great way are those who aren't in the guilds currently netting these kills. Two guilds had a great time on that day, it was the others who were shut out.

My live server, Prexus, also had a rotation system. It was used from Classic through the start of Velious (only Dain was rotated). Although clearly rotation systems have benefits, my first-hand experience playing on a server with a rotation leads me to believe the drawbacks outweigh the advantages. Many of these drawbacks have not be recognized so far in this thread. Rotation systems lead to slower progression, to waste, and although have the veneer of altruism, actually prevent guilds anywhere but the bleeding edge of the curve from ever catching up.

On Prexus, dozens of guilds rotated the planes. There were so many "planes capable" guilds that many of us were lucky to see a planar run more that a couple times a month, and that was including double-dipping the calendar with friendly guilds (a common practice). Although I will admit that the RNG hated my guts, by I finally got my ranger his TV BP during Velious. Yes, Velious. That was from raiding the planes at every opportunity the calendar would allow me during the Kunark period.

Waste was terrible as well. I put "planes capable" in quotations earlier as, although many of these guilds were capable of clearing a plane, it often took them over five hours. (This is after the level cap was raised to 60 as well!) In other words, if you were unlucky enough to follow a slow clear guild, you were in there for five or six hours even if your normal clear was an hour or two. The result was that the powers that be chose to divide a planar day into two twelve hour blocks instead of three eight hour blocks. Not only to prevent the wait, but to give people the experience of a full break. But in the end, a full spawn was wasted every day, ironically in the name of giving people more opportunity.

It gets even worse when key mobs are involved. This is how it generally goes, by the time the second tier raiding crews are ready to step up to, say Trak, the first tier crews are already keyed. More people get let in on the rotation. During that period of Kunark, I was in an alliance with a guild that was the 4th to kill Trak on the server. After consulting a calculator, we found it would have taken us roughly four to six months to key our core crew for VP. Realistically, it would have been longer, as a few months down the line, the rotation got even longer. Towards the end of the lifespan of the calendar, a guild joining the Trak rotation would require of a year and a half of waiting in line to key up a reasonable raiding force. Although perhaps this is fair, this sort of time frame is not reasonable.

In the meantime, the top tier guilds can farm VP virtually uncontested, while the teir below trying to step up is prevented from progressing by the system. This creates a cycle in which the gap between the top and the mid gets larger. The more casual raiders are just happy seeing Trak and praise the fairness of the top guilds, where as in reality, the top guilds are merely guaranteeing that the mid tier can never catch up in gear.

Not only that, but the top guild(s) can leisurely kill old, rotated content that they really only farm for guild bank gear only after they kill their priority targets. This benefits the top tier more than the middle tier. It helps the top tier's guild bank at the expense of the middle tier's progression.

So yes, although rotation systems help the most casual of the player base see some content every now and then, they also serve as an effective tool for keeping the "hardcasual" crew from ever advancing. Rotation also result in a larger stratification between the raiding guilds. In simple words, the gap between the haves and have nots becomes even wider. As a direct result guild poaching and feeder guilds become a much larger problem/reality.

Having had the misfortune of raiding under such as system of constraints in the past, I was happy then when the calendar was abolished on my live server, and I am happy now that P1999 does not have one.

Go watch Black Hawk Down, Somalia takes it.