Project 1999

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-   -   "Competition", "Skill", Cognitive Dissonance, and You. (/forums/showthread.php?t=297951)

Kich867 05-15-2018 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rygar (Post 2707042)
I played Classic EQ from day 1 release and then on and off until partway through Planes of Power. I also played WoW from Burning Crusade to Lich King (almost to cataclysm).

So at first, WoW was like the most amazing thing since sliced bread. Easy quests that give great exp, ability for any class to solo to max level by repeating these quests, no exp loss from death, lucrative tradeskills, skill trees to diversify your class, awesome raid encounters that force you to pay attention to succeed, etc etc etc.

However, what ultimately drew me away from WoW was the systematic watering down of content.
-Oh you needed a reagent to use this cooldown ability? Patch that out, need to make things easier.
-Oh, you don't want to grind heroics for epic gear? Let's just create a mini-instance in Lich King that gives like 9 epics out in a 5min instance that is basically tank and spank.
-Shaman magma totem drawing too much agro? Hmm... lets make it zero agro, stupid mobs taking 10k damage from the thing and they don't think to hit it anymore.
-People don't want to progress up and run to Ogrimmar anymore cause it takes too long? Let's add a blimp path.
-Mages frustrated that their mez (sheep) are getting broke by players not paying attention? Remove the 1 damage break mez restriction

It would just keep getting easier, and easier, and easier... It became apparent that they were catering to the 13 year old demographic who couldn't bare to be inconvenienced by the slightest else risk cancelling their subscription.

That is what drew me back to EQ and finding P99. Not any skill or competition, just a more punishing MMORPG world where there are consequences. Delayed gratification is what keeps a lot of people playing IMO

This is hilariously ironic--how exactly could 13 year olds wave their wallet around? Did they all join up together during study hall and write their local Blizzard rep, "We want things easier!"? The demo with no responsibility, no disposable income, highest capacity for investing time due to point 1, highest capacity to learn new things? They're the ones that dumbed the game down?

It couldn't possibly be the wave of moms and dads who could only play 1-2 hours a day and were pissed a bunch of 16 year olds were dominating servers and were grinding mats all day during the summer while they were at their shitty 9-5?

This is like the biggest lie old people tell themselves in the gaming community, and I get it, blaming little kids who have no capacity to actually encourage this change themselves is really easy and maybe intuitive to you, but you should recognize that these changes purely benefit casual moms and dads who can't play that often. Every single change caters to them. It's harder for them to handle intricate rotations so lets dumb those down, they don't have a lot of friends so LFR is the only way to experience that content, they don't have time to gather mats so get rid of those, walking takes too long so eliminate travel time...the list goes on. Every single change was directed at working class adults.

Older people that actually enjoy this kind of game (EQ) are the gross, gross minority compared to the millions that enjoy being able to login to WoW in their very short time frame to play the game. Their target demo isn't teenagers who can't actually buy shit, it's adults who will keep paying for those 60$ max level characters just to avoid having to spend the time to level them.

Jimjam 05-15-2018 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naethyn (Post 2707634)
Everquest isn’t hard because of the PVE. Everquest is hard because of the other players, and that’s what wow doesn’t have.

I too have dabbled in autism and struggle with human interaction.

DinoTriz 05-15-2018 09:54 AM

Why even argue about difficulty?

P99 > WoW, easily and that's an undisputed fact.

If you disagree, get Thrall. I'll kick his ass all over my front lawn.

Littul Jonn 05-15-2018 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naethyn (Post 2707634)
Everquest isn’t hard because of the PVE. Everquest is hard because of the other players, and that’s what wow doesn’t have.


Rygar 05-15-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kich867 (Post 2707624)
This is hilariously ironic--how exactly could 13 year olds wave their wallet around? Did they all join up together during study hall and write their local Blizzard rep, "We want things easier!"? The demo with no responsibility, no disposable income, highest capacity for investing time due to point 1, highest capacity to learn new things? They're the ones that dumbed the game down?

It couldn't possibly be the wave of moms and dads who could only play 1-2 hours a day and were pissed a bunch of 16 year olds were dominating servers and were grinding mats all day during the summer while they were at their shitty 9-5?

This is like the biggest lie old people tell themselves in the gaming community, and I get it, blaming little kids who have no capacity to actually encourage this change themselves is really easy and maybe intuitive to you, but you should recognize that these changes purely benefit casual moms and dads who can't play that often. Every single change caters to them. It's harder for them to handle intricate rotations so lets dumb those down, they don't have a lot of friends so LFR is the only way to experience that content, they don't have time to gather mats so get rid of those, walking takes too long so eliminate travel time...the list goes on. Every single change was directed at working class adults.

Older people that actually enjoy this kind of game (EQ) are the gross, gross minority compared to the millions that enjoy being able to login to WoW in their very short time frame to play the game. Their target demo isn't teenagers who can't actually buy shit, it's adults who will keep paying for those 60$ max level characters just to avoid having to spend the time to level them.

Keep telling yourself that. Feel free to tear apart the '13 year old' number, it is merely an expression for the younger teen crowd. Fact of the matter is younger players change games a lot, they don't have the loyalty as an older gamer, so they want to keep them interested and make them an older, loyal gamer.

And if you played WoW and did a bunch of pick up groups / raids it is heavily, heavily apparent that most everyone in Vent is prepubescent. Of course I'm speaking from like 10 years ago, so maybe times have changed.

I found it ironic when Kung-Fu Pandas became a thing in WoW, really trying to target the 'nostalgia' of that younger demo.

splose 05-15-2018 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjs86z (Post 2707615)
Previous WoW world first racer here.

Does anyone actually think EQ is harder than WoW from a mechanics standpoint? No. Not even close. I would say P99 raiding is far more about preparation, game / zone knowledge, and truly dedicated (to the point of mental illness) leadership.

Its just a different flavor. I had never played EQ before I started P99 a bit over three years ago. I had been done with WoW for a while, had my "successes" in the high end raid scene, and found the community and experiences here to be refreshing. It reminded me of my old Asheron's Call days where you actually had to form relationships with people on the server instead of just entering a queue and not having to communicate with anyone.

WoW has become a homogenized abomination that caters to the snowflake generation. Sure, the upper echelon / bleeding edge mythic raiding is challenging...but the rest of the game is severely watered down nonsense. It has zero appeal to me as an older gamer.

I don't necessarily get off on my games being uber hard anymore. We're not 17 years old with amazing reflexes and nearly unlimited hours to practice / perfect our skills. I've boiled myself down to ARAMs (LoL) and casual P99 these days. I quite enjoy that in my limited time I have in front of the computer.

We're all shitters for playing video games in the first place.

I've had a hard time getting back into the game myself for the same reasons you outlined. I do go back every expansion just to see what is going on but that's about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naethyn (Post 2707634)
Everquest isn’t hard because of the PVE. Everquest is hard because of the other players, and that’s what wow doesn’t have.

I dont know, the average player is pretty bad in every video game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DinoTriz (Post 2707649)
Why even argue about difficulty?

P99 > WoW, easily and that's an undisputed fact.

If you disagree, get Thrall. I'll kick his ass all over my front lawn.

I would but the last time I played we didn't know where Thrall went.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa (Post 2707677)
wow my holy name is getting call outs in this thread, people truly have been triggered by op's truth

myself included, i was also triggered once, but have since found unhealthy peace w/ my relationship to elf simulators

I'm only trying to help people find the peace that you have found. They'll thank me one day.

splose 05-15-2018 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naethyn (Post 2707686)
Good players rarely make Everquest harder, it is the bad players who do.

I understood what you were saying. But you said that WoW doesn't have that. I was saying that it is exactly the same in any other game.

Wonkie 05-15-2018 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa (Post 2707677)
wow my holy name is getting call outs in this thread, people truly have been triggered by op's truth

myself included, i was also triggered once, but have since found unhealthy peace w/ my relationship to elf simulators

nuh uh! i just think you can do better than the obnoxious goon thing all the time

:(

splose 05-15-2018 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maskedmelon (Post 2707696)
woah, last page pretty embarrassing and i didn't even read it (o^^o)

I feel as though I should give you a reaction because nobody else in this thread has tried as hard as you.

Here you go.

katrik 05-15-2018 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splose (Post 2706602)
Terrible comparisons. Just because I don't play on this specific box doesn't mean I've never played classic through velious before.

Still awaiting answers for my questions.. overall unimpressed with the replies so far. If you guys are gonna attempt to derail and/or be condescending I think you guys can do better.

This guy is good lol


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