PvP Thread, Balancing issues / Parsing / Resists / Known issues.
 

Before this thread starts I'd like to request some moderation please, we don't have a place to post this, and i would like to get out of the rant and flames part of the boards so we can discuss actual pvp mechanics and the way the community would see the server, as per request by Rogean in the other thread.

I'll address each part of pvp, if you have input reply in the same format, with known issues in each section and i'll edit the top post of the thread in relation to relevant information raised in your post.

There won't be much here until we can do some actual testing over time on a beta server, what rexx did was fine but doesn't actually provide us with any insight of what's happening with anything in pvp at all really, we need parses over time to determine max and minimum hits for each melee class once AC is implemented. Sorry rexx but i don't think we can conclude that damage needs to be raised after a short time messing around on somebodys alt chars at p99.

We need to decide what the staff here / the community are trying to achieve, is this a classic eq pvp server or are you making some sort of attempt to balance it.

I've just pasted issues from the other thread in the appropriate section, feel free to reply and i'll update so that the devs can read this as a top post without scrolling through pages.

Through lasher on AIM and rexx's post we've added a few already, feel free to post concerns below.
________________________
Balancing Issues (TESTED ISSUES) on p99

-Z-Axis tested, range in screenshots. 31.03.2011

--[Out of range Z-axis] www.vexthal.com/inrange.bmp
--[MAX in range Z-Axis] www.vexthal.com/outofrange.bmp

-Melee hit boxes do NOT work through walls 31.03.2011

--www.vexthal.com/WALLBOX.bmp

-Disarm "WORKS, WOW" Item went to first bag. [If bags are full item goes onto the cursor] 31.03.2011
-There IS a Line of sight check at the end of casting. 31.03.2011
-Hit boxes are basically 1 human player length laying down, which i think is fine. 31.03.2011
-Fear and charm do not work on PC's. 31.03.2011
-AC Does not work. 31.03.2011
-Monk throwing weapon can be thrown out of your ass, sometimes bugs and says you cannot see your target, but for the most part does not require vision from the front. 31.03.2011
-dwarf clerics on P99 currently get the bash ability, while other cleric races do not. 31.03.2011
-Sitting down means nothing on p99 when taking damage. 31.03.2011
-Tracking works 31.03.2011
BACKSTAB - Needs work, Screenshot provided. www.vexthal.com/backstablol.bmp
As you can see, he's basically stood infront of me. 31.03.2011


Did some MINOR testing with root for MR resist checks 02/04/2011 Tests were done by foxx (Highest level root spell level 50 cleric?)

11/70 resists vs 25 MR Level 50
27/70 resists vs 65 MR Level 50

It's very limited due to not having that much access to toons / not many people have resist gear on p99 either.
_________________________
Balancing Issues (tbc)

-Hit box, how close you need to be to hit smeone or get hit by someone
-Did different races have smaller or bigger hit boxes
-Rog's degree of angle to land a Back stab
-Being able to shoot arrows out of your ass
-Should pets zone should they not. "pets did not zone with players until the patch July 14th, 2004"

-Should bards ench be able to charm poof mage pets

-Fear/Charm/Whirl to you hurl are all spells that need looking at.
-Does tracking players work properly on p99?
-Does disarm work properly?
-"Also saw no difference in physical attacks on 400ac and 900ac" AC Scaling
-If you had money on your cursor when being Pked your plat would not be able to be looted
-update... dwarf clerics on P99 currently get the bash ability, while other cleric races do not.
-I hear mage bolts on p99 are really slow and might able to be out ran

-Zone line AOE. (Frowned upon, against the rules on VZ/TZ) AOE Mechanics on the whole.
-Should murky vial in/out? CUrrently in on p99
-Should golem wands in/out rechargeable? (Golem wand was eventually patched to 4 second cast time on live 2002, seems reasonable to me)
-Egg shaped pumice (I'll speak for the whole community and say the insta click version of these should not be implemented)


______________________________________________
Parsing

-10 minutes of constant hits parsed properly for each class, max hit %, lowest hit %, and actual hit chance.
-Caster parsing, max damage vs mr etc
______________________________________________
Resists

-"There was no difference in paralyzing earth landing on 45 mr as there was on 90mr." MR Scaling

Tested using VZ/TZ Code ( If you don't use their casting code this can be a cross reference, Started testing tonight, looking through the database code so i can compile each spell under the same test if it has the same formula) 02/04/2011

Engulfing Roots 100 casts. Level 50 Druid root *(MR)*

25 MR 8% resists / 100 casts
35 MR 17% Resists / 100 casts
45 MR 16% Resists / 100 Casts
55 MR 23% Resists / 100 Casts
75 MR 33% Resists / 100 Casts
100 MR 38% Resists / 100 Casts
125 MR 52% Resists / 100 Casts
145 MR 68% Resists / 100 casts
170 MR 72% Resists / 100 Casts

Any MR Based nuke i tested had the same sort of scale with resisting, it seems every resist check has the same modifier,

As an example, i don't think with 170MR i should resist MR nukes constantly, at the same time, with 170MR i don't think i should be getting hit by root.


Lava bolt testing, *(FR)*

25 FR 2% Resists / 100 Casts
50 FR 20% Resists / 100 Casts
85 FR 41% Resists / 100 Casts
125 FR 49% Resists / 100 Casts

170 FR 62% Resists 26% of the remaining 38% were partial resists / 100 Casts

( Most hits partial hits for 200, spell hits for 500 normally ish )

Again, the same sort of resist check applies with fire, every fire nuke on each class has the same resist rate after 100 casts.

Poison Resist test


Ebolt *(PR)*


30 PR 6% Resists / 100 Casts
85 PR 44% Resists / 100 Casts
170 PR 62% resists / 100 Casts


Plague *(DR)* ( Tested highest possible DR, nobody is getting anywhere near 170 in classic so assumed testing was pretty much pointless)

170 DR 54% Resists / 100 Casts


Cold resist nukes provided almost identical numbers to every other resist check.

Ice *(CR)*

30 CR 7% Resists / 100 casts
100 CR 46% Resists / 100 casts
170 CR 59% Resists / 100 Casts

All of the tests done were level 50 nuking a level 50 - the resists came from buffs/ summoned items.

It seems to me that all spells have the same resist check, no matter what i cast from the same school of magic i get the same numbers. Root is the only spell that was marginally resisted more than other spells.

The sample of 100 spell casts isn't optimal, but it paints a picture when all of the spells are in the same ball park after the same amount of casts.


______________________________________________
Known Issues


______________________________________________


Known issues is a difficult one until we get a dev server to test on, alot of the things that happened on vz/tz for example casting bind sight on corpses crashing zones, may not happen here, so that's pending testing.

If any of the devs here feel this post is inappropriate please delete it, i assumed that this was what you were requesting from the thread when i read it.

Again, only reply to this thread with concerns for pvp balancing, known issues with resists and actual tests you've carried out on p99.

For now this is just for reference ofcourse, we're not asking devs to go out and test the "Questions" here, we'll do the testing for you.

-Hit box, how close you need to be to hit smeone or get hit by someone
-Did different races have smaller or bigger hit boxes
-Rog's degree of angle to land a Back stab
-Being able to shoot arrows out of your ass
-If you had money on your cursor when being Pked your plat would not be able to be looted
-Clerics not getting stun bash till luclin
-I hear mage bolts on p99 are really slow and might able to be out ran
-At one point soe made all resist debuffs do 150% in pvp compared to PVE

These are all issues that need to be considered.Some stuff will need to be decided by community feedback or by the dev. People will try and tell you on live in 1999 that they resisted root with 110mr 80% of the time but its just bull because they are just making up a % that they are comfortable with. I would almost say a resist formula is going to need to be created. VZTZ resist forumla sucked and from what I read about p99 resist on dark blue mobs theirs might needs some work too. Alot of this is going to be need to be tested and tweaked until you hear minimum bitching from casters and melee.

I see the levitate vs Z axis is already being discussed. I think its needs to be compromised where both sides feel its fair. Melee shouldnt have unlimited z axis range but melee should have a certain distance to be able to hit floating casters. One suggestion is take the average distance that an offensive spell is and set that as the z axis range for melee. If a caster can cast on the melee then the melee can hit them. But if the caster is high in the air and just trying to run away i dont think a melee should have a huge z axis range

pets did not zone with players until the patch July 14th, 2004 (zam patch history)

charm shouldn't work on any pets, or players for that matter. Neither should fear.

A huge problem I saw on emu pvp, is players and pets being able to hit other plays (and mobs for that matter) through walls. This needs to be looked at.

Also, I don't like how easy it is to AE rain zone lines. On EQlive, AE spells hit everyone -- including ALL other players, even in the same guild or group. This should deffinetly be implemented.

--as far as gameplay mechanics and resists go, I can't comment on anything since I have not played any pvp on the p99 server

player hit boxes were all equal as far as I know

rog had a 180 degree angle to land backstab, as long as they were in anyway behind the player, backstab would work. This is how it should be. If its possible to impliment higher % chance to do more damage the better your angle, i dont care honestly (a career rogue, like fiegi, could give you a deffinite answer how it worked)

arrows should 100% require visual LOS to use.

currently on P99 if you die with money on your cursor, it dies with your corpse. you do NOT respawn with it

clerics should not get stun bash, even tho I wish we did. =(

no idea about mage bolts

it was not 180 degrees. Because if someone put their back the wall you had to get bhind them to bs them and if it was 180 you would be able to bs them from the side.

update... dwarf clerics on P99 currently get the bash ability, while other cleric races do not.

this doesnt mean anything on p99, but on a pvp server its huge for obvious reasons

--Balance--
Should golem wands in/out recharagable?

--Balance--
Should murky vial in/out? CUrrently in on p99

A+ point... also, big thing. the item "Egg-Shaped Pumice"

it was during classic, kunark and velious, 5-charge INSTA cast version of the regular pumice. Anyone know what it is like on p99, or if it even drops / is in the database? and huge balance issue if this should be part of a red99 server

Thought you guys wanted Red99? It shouldnt be balanced at all, it should be pvp just as it was in 99 no?