if you cant kill a mob on your own.. don't go in period. kill minis.. get out... or merge and solve your problems. Always bitching about handouts and agreements that shouldn't be there in the first place. Don't leapfrog a guild that's cleared the entire place or spent hours clearing. Tov is entirely different, if you try to "claim a dragon from ent," kill 2 mobs, while another kills 3.. thats competition. Don't cry wolf if someone goes after the same mob as in this case. Two guild sitting at Vulak while another guild kills the last dragon is a real "leapfrog" and again asking for a free hand outs.
AG pretends to be handicap but they are not, why doesn't AG attempt Vyemm while Core takes Vulak? don't trust each other? stop expecting to always leach off AM.

I don't personally feel good about either side of this argument, but if we're going to get anywhere we have to all be honest with ourselves about our roles in the matter.

AM saying that they no longer agree to the rules they drafted and signed onto and then just going into PoG to clear Tunare without a new one in place is not exactly something that puts them on the moral high ground here. The other guilds coming into PoG to contest Tunare was to show AM what an agreement-free PoG would look like. Why should they just let AM have a contested mob when AM *chose* to withdraw from the agreement?

Would it have been lame to snipe a Tunare? Yeah, which is why we have the agreement that AM backed out of. That they chose to then go clear PoG *before* a new agreement was in place is what started the whole showdown in the first place. To then say that the other guilds were holding a gun to AM's head in the negotiating process is disingenuous to say the least.

Many guilds put time and effort into clearing PoF in order to kill CT, who then gets sniped by another guild because he is a contested mob. With AM dissolving the agreement meant to allow guilds that put the time into clearing PoG a priority chance at Tunare, they essentially turned Tunare into exactly that: a contested mob. Then they said don't bother us while we're killing this contested mob without an agreement in place; we'll figure out a new agreement later.

AM has a long history of saying "let's play on for now and figure it out later," which I think a lot of other guilds are frustrated with.

Nobody acted perfectly here, but I don't think you're discussing it in good faith if you pain Franswa as the villain of the piece; you can't "steal" something if the agreement put in place to secure ownership rights is torpedoed. That mob becomes contested just like any other.

just Agree to 24 hours.

Agree that you’re all hopelessly addicted to pixels

I think you are too considering your post count and infatuation with Detoxx.

Meh. I play/raid casually maybe once twice a week. Don’t think I have the bug that bad. Certainly never leapfrogged or lawyerquested anyone becuase i needed pixels so badly.

AM's clear yesterday definitely took far longer than it typically does. Some part of that was the stall that happened when other guilds rolled in as a show of force, some part of it was far lower numbers than usual, and I would assume some things went wrong as well (I wasn't there so I don't know the particulars).

I have been at clears that were more like 1/3rd of that time. If it's any consolation about all of this, 9 hours were spent to get some doodoo ass loot. PoG is pretty fun imo but 9 hours is crapola. I want that 2x earring + EON Tunare instead :(

Why is this hard?

Does it really matter whether you have 12 hours to start the clear or 12 hours to finish the clear? If you lost the FTE race at 11pm, what does it change for your guild if we have to start at 6am vs having to start before 11am, other than 'TEE HEE NOW THEY HAVE TO WAKE UP EARLY'? By the same token, what does it do for your guild to make us start a clear at 11pm other than again, depriving another guild of sleep?

Is the goal here to make an agreement that makes PoGrowth LESS miserable, or a shitty contest that benefits the biggest neckbeards?

Na, i'm never rooting for people to get garbage loot. Sounded like you guys got a nice little mixed bag of stuff. I've always wanted the rapier as a stat weapon.

If you're guild is filled with people on the take without jobs its easy to start a POG clear at 3am. If you feel this entitles you to all the pixels and you want to be a twat about it, you make it difficult for other guilds to do things.

God forbid people take a few of the things in the game and not shit all over them.

Guild backs out of agreement to keep PoG civil. Complains when other guilds show them what a shitshow it will be:
https://i.imgur.com/fLvYmms.png

https://i.imgur.com/zogEhSC.png