Project 1999
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Project 1999 (/forums/index.php)
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-   -   What if P99 blew up? (/forums/showthread.php?t=384882)

RecondoJoe 05-19-2021 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblake1981 (Post 3308706)
Pantheon reminds me of DaoC with a WoW & EQ flavoring packet tossed in. :o
I'm excited about it, but they doing things that I dont like.... like the no CR thing... would actually prefer they have a server with a hardcore ruleset that includes stuff like that..

and like, you know how in EQ there was just weird spells that made the game more fun to play? Like why did an Enchanter need to turn into a chair? IDK, but it was really exciting at the time. There's none of that in Pantheon from what I can see. Like I don't think Wizards get new spells every 4 levels, I think they essentially use the entire 6 spells for their entire character life, and thats not cool IMHO

one thing I like about spells is how drastically different you play your character depending on the level range.. like in some level ranges shamans nuke, in some level ranges their pet tanks, in some level ranges they root rot...

necro very similar... like the class has a million different play styles depending on your current level...
in Pantheon its more like World of Warcraft... where like.... level 1 wizard and level 50 wizard essentially using the same exact spell?

Mblake1981 05-19-2021 08:08 AM
Mike: "Hey dude, did you hear about the rave?"
Skeets: "Yeah, where is it going to be?"
Mike: "The school gym with a live DJ"
Skeets: "Wait that sounds too gnarly.."
Mike: "Don't worry, there will be no drugs."
Skeets: "What about supervision?"
Mike: "The Principle and some of his staff."
Skeets: "Cool cool, and girls?"
Mike: "No touching"
Skeets: "Respect is awesome."
Mike: "Yes I agree."
Skeets: "Its going to be so rad"
Mike: "Living on the edge."

Mblake1981 05-19-2021 08:10 AM

starkind 05-19-2021 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unsunghero (Post 3308683)
Technically a scripted PvE encounter can never match the challenge potential involving both macro but also micromanagement involved in a team-based PvP match. This is because no matter how difficult a PvE encounter is programmed to be, the raid target will always behave based on its pre-programmed AI. Learn the AI, beat the encounter. A player opponent has an infinitely wider range of possible choices they can make

I was never super into EQ's pvp, but I was super into WoW's, specifically arenas. Then and now in WoW, almost always a top ranked arena player could learn the hardest raids but a top PvE player could almost never achieve top 10 rank in arenas
PvE is generally a game of memorization and preparation.

Most people don't want to be able to lose to innovation and creativity.

Kids who feel like they are good because they win at pvp... well. Yeah. You're great at being a scripted AI yourself lol.

So many people lack genuine self awareness and ingenuity, it's being deliberately bread out of people.

Imagine getting paid to be a raid encounter and own newbs tho :p

starkind 05-19-2021 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkind (Post 3308715)
PvE is generally a game of memorization and preparation.

Most people don't want to be able to lose to innovation and creativity.

Kids who feel like they are good because they win at pvp... well. Yeah. You're great at being a scripted AI yourself lol.

So many people lack genuine self awareness and ingenuity, it's being deliberately bread out of people.

Imagine getting paid to be a raid encounter and own newbs tho :p
I mean, heck at its core all games are player vs developers, but the iteration process and the developers ability to defeat the player is abstracted out each expansion or season. So these dweebs who are pvp adverse are really deceiving themselves thinking their UNdkp is super clever.

Jimjam 05-19-2021 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkind (Post 3308715)
PvE is generally a game of memorization and preparation.

Most people don't want to be able to lose to innovation and creativity.

Kids who feel like they are good because they win at pvp... well. Yeah. You're great at being a scripted AI yourself lol.

So many people lack genuine self awareness and ingenuity, it's being deliberately bread out of people.

Imagine getting paid to be a raid encounter and own newbs tho :p
The funny thing is when AI isn't predictable the players complain about RNG.

A lot of PVP seems to be about getting tricks / combos off, which isn't really different to the memorisation/preparation you mention too.

I don't know what my point is here, if I even have one.

RecondoJoe 05-19-2021 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starkind (Post 3308715)
PvE is generally a game of memorization and preparation.

Most people don't want to be able to lose to innovation and creativity.

Kids who feel like they are good because they win at pvp... well. Yeah. You're great at being a scripted AI yourself lol.

So many people lack genuine self awareness and ingenuity, it's being deliberately bread out of people.

Imagine getting paid to be a raid encounter and own newbs tho :p
individual skill level in WoW isnt really reflected and i know that will sound crazy, but it's really not... ive literally stomped gladiator rogues in duels repeatedly, had them spend days trying to beat me, meanwhile i could never come close to getting gladiator because of the gate-keeping that goes on in the game.

it doesnt matter how good you are at your class, it matters how good the people on your team are. this is not a new phenomenon ... it actually has been this way since at least cataclysm

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ing-pvp/781245

now i still love pvp in wow (when its balanced, the last time i played it was not)
but i also spent years of my life trying to find arena partners who were serious while getting rejected by players who were in the absolute upper brackets and essentially shunned by them even though I could out-play most of them

game has also changed a lot
like i consider myself garbage at pvp now, i half-ass try and still hit 2k rating usually on my first day of playing and i genuinely feel like me and my team is playing at what would be a 1400 rating team in cataclysm...

RecondoJoe 05-19-2021 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam (Post 3308719)
The funny thing is when AI isn't predictable the players complain about RNG.

A lot of PVP seems to be about getting tricks / combos off, which isn't really different to the memorisation/preparation you mention too.

I don't know what my point is here, if I even have one.
in a duel you can usually look at items and spec and know who is going to win the duel before it even starts

BFA was fucking dumb towards the end, literally getting one shotted by corruption

as a rogue main... dying to other rogue mains in an opener felt really stupid... trinket? Okay youre now blinded, sapped, and you die anyways to second opener...

and no it has not always been that way as rogue. for many expacs i would not even stealth and would let the other rogue open on me and was always able to turn it around and win most of the time... in bfa... nah dead instantly ... in shadowlands.... nah dead instantly...
idk if they ever fixed it, but it was 100% not fun for me to kill other players that way, or be killed that way

for me what makes rogue fun is being super slippery and tricky, aggravating to play against due to your CC... not this class that just pops up out of no where and one shots you before you can respond.

Mblake1981 05-19-2021 08:53 AM
Quote:
"Developers back in the day were cowboys, they didn't know what they were doing. Today you have formulas, the secrets are figured out."

-Horcalong
Quote:
“Remember the 60s?” says Frank Zappa in the interview above, “that era that a lot of people have these glorious memories of?… they really weren’t that great, those years.” Ever the grumpy uncle. But Zappa does get nostalgic for one thing, and it’s an unexpected one: the music business. “One thing that did happen in the 60s,” he says, “was some music of an unusual and experimental nature did get recorded, did get released.” The executives of the day were “cigar-chomping old guys who looked at the product and said, ‘I don’t know. Who knows what it is? Record it, stick it out. If it sells, alright!’”

“We were better off with those guys,” says Zappa, “than we are with the hip, young executives,” making decisions about what people should hear.

UrkTheSlayer 05-19-2021 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unsunghero (Post 3308686)
In regards to grind, nothing in EQ can compare to vanilla WoW's rank 14 grind. It required at least 12 hours/day and that's IF you had a team that won 100% of Battlegrounds in 5-10 minutes. If you were trying to go Ronin and solo your way to rank 14 it would usually require 16-20 hours/day 7 days a week depending on server size. Each player killed in pvp tended to award something like 15-30 honor, and on my vasnilla WoW server in order to place in the top 5 spots for honor at the end of the week, you needed at least 1,200,000 honor. That's a LOT of fucking pvp

And Wow's rank 14 grind was life-draining and soul-crushing due to the fact that you were competing against all the hyper-nerds of your 5000+ player server, but also if you were rank 12-13 and you DIDN'T place in the top 5ish for honor points earned for your server, you would actually lose progress. That's what made people in my BG ranking team legit suicidal - playing 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, then at the end of that week, actually LOSING 20% of your previous progress in rank 13 because some super-neckbeards played more than that. All that effort that week, wasted

Most grinds involve an insane amount of work, but that progress in that work is saved and moves one direction. Imagine a grind where progress moves more violently in the other direction the closer to the end you get. Most people that achieved it either sold their account or just quit the game due to extreme burnout at that point. I got rank 14 and made a few pvp vids, and then continued on into TBC. I was living very unhealthy IRL then though
You want to talk about an mindless endgame grind that was implemented to keep players subscribed? Get max AA’s pre POP.


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