There were lots of changes ... with everything, not just charm, made without any public announcement.

Thus, I don't think it's safe to assume that because Verant never announced "we're changing charm" that charm hadn't changed since '99 (and the same could be said of Feign Death, or Sneak, or whatever else in EQ).

People arguing with Loramin should realize he's only making a fuss because he's had his a4 camp stolen one too many times by pesky gnome enchanters. As an aside, let's not ignore the fact that shamans greatly outnumber enchanters at those camps in PoM (as well as many other "cash camps" since charming can be so incredibly tedious).

Back on topic, there is no in-era evidence that the charisma stat was not used in the calculation for charm duration. In fact, we have evidence of the contrary from comments made by the developers themselves. The EQemu guy argued that Zatkin, the spell designer, was somehow mistaken about the charm spell, but there's a recent interview with Zatkin on youtube that I think shows how conscientious and meticulous he was working on EQ. He even speaks to how from the very beginning, McQuaid and Zatkin had envisioned enchanter's charm spell to be especially powerful in the game. I think that's quite telling.

THIS is the kind of stuff I am looking for. Good stuff

Doesn't hold water in elf court.

Total domination AA does lead to some credible info that charm became more powerful later on which led to the nerf. But is charm as it currently stands OP, and should CHA not impact it?

Did a little research on the total domination AA.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/....230860/page-3

A few interesting bits in here. It is out of era of course. But the major thing I picked out of the posts is that seems like it's pretty common knowledge that CHA has always been included in the charming formula for enchanters.

I haven't played on Loramin/Blue, let alone in A4 specifically, for months ... but ok :rolleyes:

Also, when Green 2.0 comes out I'm rolling an Enchanter main: so any "nerf" would hurt me. I want to play the classic Enchanter, not the easy-mode one. That class was still a great class that was totally worth playing.

No one is saying charm shouldn't be powerful: of course it should be, because the point of this place is to emulate EQ in '99- '01, and charm was powerful back then.

All I'm saying is that there was a trade-off for that power back in '99, and that trade-off is that it was risky. It should be risky here too.

When is that?:eek:

1.) Charm during the first year+ of EQ was just used to Charm an NPC and throw it into another so they fight each other. It was Velious era when Enchanters were starting to Charm more long term, but that wasn't totally common, still something that braver Enchanters were doing rather than being the norm.

2.) Regardless of what the exact Charm mechanics were back then, it absolutely would have been nerfed if people back then were using it has they have been on p99.

No official announcement yet, but the whole point of this place is to keep producing Green servers, so ...

https://i.imgur.com/HVVndwv.gif?1

Agreed ... although I do think all classes were experimenting with all their spells from day one, because no one knew any better. I remember wasting lots of time experimenting with the Shaman Rain line of spells, for instance ;)

So I don't think it's that no one tried charming: they totally did! And some surely tried (say) charming in groups. The reason you didn't see Enchanters charming in group in classic wasn't that no one thought to try ... it's that they did try, and it was too risky, so they stopped doing it.

Irrelevant.