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-   -   Would I be stupid to want to roll a second pally? (/forums/showthread.php?t=402100)

Barlu 04-26-2022 07:50 PM

What I was getting at is your Tunare High Elf Pally isn’t going to really be any different than your current Pally except worse overall. If you want to roll a second one go for it l, but it will be a redundant experience with a weaker character.

Loadsamoney 04-26-2022 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barlu (Post 3451547)
What I was getting at is your Tunare High Elf Pally isn’t going to really be any different than your current Pally except worse overall. If you want to roll a second one go for it l, but it will be a redundant experience with a weaker character.

You just said High Elf is the Min/Max choice though.

DeathsSilkyMist 04-26-2022 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney (Post 3451588)
You just said High Elf is the Min/Max choice though.

Even though it is the Min/Max choice, it often takes a long time for the Min/Max choice to really matter. Min/Max usually assumes you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear (or close to it). In that case, even a low STR/STA race like High Elf will be maxed out in STR and STA. The benefit to being a High Elf when you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear is that gear tends to give a ton of STR and STA, but doesn't give as much WIS and CHA. By going High Elf, you end up with higher WIS and CHA compared to a dwarf with the same Best in Slot Velious raid gear.

Loadsamoney 04-26-2022 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3451669)
Even though it is the Min/Max choice, it often takes a long time for the Min/Max choice to really matter. Min/Max usually assumes you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear (or close to it). In that case, even a low STR/STA race like High Elf will be maxed out in STR and STA. The benefit to being a High Elf when you have Best in Slot Velious raid gear is that gear tends to give a ton of STR and STA, but doesn't give as much WIS and CHA. By going High Elf, you end up with higher WIS and CHA compared to a dwarf with the same Best in Slot Velious raid gear.

Well the odds of me ever having BiS raid gear is effectively zilch. My end-game goals for a character are usually Epic + Thurgadin Armor OR Planar armor.

Gustoo 04-27-2022 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney (Post 3451431)

If you tally up their starting stats vs Dwarf Pally, they actually have higher stats overall than Dwarf, 572 vs 558. So I think there would be enough separation between HE Pally vs Dwarf Pally to make it interesting.
.

I want to comment on the starting stats thing.

If you remove intelligence, a totally useless stat for a paladin in every way, you have 480 points in the high elf, and 498 points in the dwarf. 325 high elf and 338 dwarf if you also remove dex and agility (dwarf has really high dex)

Just saying, the only thing you really miss is the charisma and if you haven't had trouble with your lulls you probably wont. Some people prefer to be able to use critical lull resists to pull anyways.

high elf is one of the worst paladin race choices until they are end game velious geared. It takes a lot of top gear to make up for having pitiful melee stats.

Even a half elf with all points to wisdom would be better. They can still worship tunare can't they? Way better strength way better dex almost the same charisma, terrible wisdom.

But for normal people, dwarf is arguably the best choice. A lot of people would go human because they have decent melee stats and aren't gimped in charisma or wisdom. That would probably be the race i recommend to you if you did wanna roll a second one.

But id say, only do it for the fun of leveling again, not to change what you can do with your class, which won't happen by changing a few starting stats.

Loadsamoney 04-27-2022 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustoo (Post 3451739)
I want to comment on the starting stats thing.

If you remove intelligence, a totally useless stat for a paladin in every way, you have 480 points in the high elf, and 498 points in the dwarf. 325 high elf and 338 dwarf if you also remove dex and agility (dwarf has really high dex)

Just saying, the only thing you really miss is the charisma and if you haven't had trouble with your lulls you probably wont. Some people prefer to be able to use critical lull resists to pull anyways.

high elf is one of the worst paladin race choices until they are end game velious geared. It takes a lot of top gear to make up for having pitiful melee stats.

Even a half elf with all points to wisdom would be better. They can still worship tunare can't they? Way better strength way better dex almost the same charisma, terrible wisdom.

But for normal people, dwarf is arguably the best choice. A lot of people would go human because they have decent melee stats and aren't gimped in charisma or wisdom. That would probably be the race i recommend to you if you did wanna roll a second one.

But id say, only do it for the fun of leveling again, not to change what you can do with your class, which won't happen by changing a few starting stats.

The main reason would be for access to Nature's Defender. No Bash, but 45AC on a weapon is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it's considered shield AC like I've been told, and thus ignores the AC cap. FD still beats it overall, but I've heard ND is the 3rd best tanking weapon for a Tunare Pally.

Crede 04-27-2022 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney (Post 3451742)
The main reason would be for access to Nature's Defender. No Bash, but 45AC on a weapon is nothing to sneeze at, especially if it's considered shield AC like I've been told, and thus ignores the AC cap. FD still beats it overall, but I've heard ND is the 3rd best tanking weapon for a Tunare Pally.

That’s your sole reason? A bit silly imo. ND is a cool wep with nice stats but garbage ratio

FD looks sweet on a dorf, just farm what pp you need to buy the mqs and enjoy having superior stats over HIE until velious end game which who cares at that point you’ve already won.

Lampolo 04-27-2022 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danth (Post 3451086)
How are you stupid for doing what you like? The entire point of the game is to have a good time. I have three paladins on my account, and two shadow knights.

Danth

This explains a lot

DeathsSilkyMist 04-27-2022 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crede (Post 3451747)
That’s your sole reason? A bit silly imo. ND is a cool wep with nice stats but garbage ratio

FD looks sweet on a dorf, just farm what pp you need to buy the mqs and enjoy having superior stats over HIE until velious end game which who cares at that point you’ve already won.

The ratio on Nature's Defender isn't that bad. It's a 0.825 ratio, and Fiery Defender is a 0.875. Not a huge gap between the two. Ratio-wise both are meh compared to NToV weapons, which aren't difficult to get. But if your goal is stopping at something like Fiery Defender, Nature's Defender isn't a bad stopping point either.

Crede 04-27-2022 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3451823)
The ratio on Nature's Defender isn't that bad. It's a 0.825 ratio, and Fiery Defender is a 0.875. Not a huge gap between the two. Ratio-wise both are meh compared to NToV weapons, which aren't difficult to get. But if your goal is stopping at something like Fiery Defender, Nature's Defender isn't a bad stopping point either.

I was referring to the context here that he wants to start a new race for an ND when if anything he should just focus on finishing the FD on his dwarf if he wants something with similar stats. Both are pretty bad weapons though ratiowise.


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