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tmoneynegro 10-13-2011 01:45 AM

Can capitalism exist without govt
 
edit: Fuck, I messed up the poll title, it should read "Can Capitalism exist without govt"

There were a bunch of D- students in P99 chat like Abacab claiming capitalism can't exist without govt.

Capitalism Defintion: private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit in a market, and prices and wages are elements of capitalism

There are no government agencies listed as requirements for that. Furthermore, if only 2 people exist on the entire planet and they barter a boulder for a dead rat, that is capitalism.

Csihar 10-13-2011 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro (Post 432185)
Furthermore, if only 2 people exist on the entire planet and they barter a boulder for a dead rat, that is capitalism.

No.

tmoneynegro 10-13-2011 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Csihar (Post 432235)
No.

Then what is it? Another D student claiming something isn't capitalism yet can't explain what it would be. Simple "barter" is in fact capitalism.

Estrang 10-13-2011 07:48 AM

you are stupid if you think a thread like this will win over Secret's heart

Csihar 10-13-2011 07:53 AM

No.

Doors 10-13-2011 10:32 AM

I voted for Boo Berry because its my most favoritist cereal in the whole wide world.

Doors 10-13-2011 11:02 AM

Aw someone deleted my second comment. Joke ruined.

Loke 10-13-2011 11:08 AM

This is a horrible phrased question, there are so many factors to consider.

First, most free-market proponent, and even most anarcho-capitalist will agree that there is a necessary function of the government in a capitalist economy. Even in a truly free market, there needs to be a general guideline for conduct (contract law notably), as well as a place to settle disputes in relation to those guidelines (judicial system), as well as a mixed bag of other albeit less "economic" functions (defense, etc).

Now, despite your definition, as we've seen through our current economy, the whole idea of capitalism is a slightly ambiguous term. You really need to look at the entire economy to question whether government is necessary. Are you going to have a purely barter economy? If not, what kind of banking system would the economy have? If there was fractional reserve banking, would those banks be supported by a centralized reserve bank? What would be used as a medium of exchange? Gold? Gold backed currency? Fiat currency? If fiat currency, who would regulate and control it? I mean, if we're talking about the US dollar, you really have to think about the implications there as well. Since 1971, the US dollar has essentially been akin to gold in that is a universally accepted store of wealth - which has further implications when you start to think about the fact that the US government could essentially print gold (not really, but you get my point). That isn't even considering aspects of monetary policy conducted by a central governing body, which is something I won't get into...

So to answer your question, no. A free market economy certainly can exist in a variety of forms, but unless we return to a barter economy (and even then not really) we need some sort of governing body (not necessarily a federal government) to provide those fundamental and very limited guidelines and services.

I happen to be a proponent of the Austrian and Chicago schools of economics (there are aspects of both I really like; and yes, I know they're not the same thing..) which both tend to favor free markets. However, despite what the MSM and people like Krugman would have you believe, even us wacky free-marketers understand the need for limited regulation. The disagreement has never been over "government" or "no government" - it has been about "how much government". History has shown time and time again that intervention in the markets leads to unnaturally large bubbles that eventually burst. This all stems for the Keynesian idea that we can promote constant economic growth through the use of monetary policy to avoid down turns in the economy. There is a lot of debate about this even among economist, but the thinking I tend to agree with is that intervention through monetary policy only exaggerates the natural highs and lows of the business cycle, something which I tend to think is undesirable.

Harrison 10-13-2011 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doors (Post 432374)
Aw someone deleted my second comment. Joke ruined.

You mean blatant racism isn't allowed on the forums?! NOWAI

tmoneynegro 10-13-2011 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loke (Post 432383)
First, most free-market proponent, and even most anarcho-capitalist will agree that there is a necessary function of the government in a capitalist economy.

The question has nothing to do with your opinions of how the world should operate. It's about textbook definitions.

If the US govt collapsed tomorrow, capitalism can exist with no "state" being around at all.


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