Think what you want but all I can say is there was a warrior main who is an app present at that raid. How we do raids and the reason for why the hand went to what warrior doesn't really concern you. I'm not a liar though.

There was certainly two different waves of adds. The first was 3 clerics and a spite, in addition to a loathing lich that was already in camp. Who aggroed that is anyone's guess. The second wave is the one I think is more questionable.

Talenos engaged Maestro:
[Fri Nov 30 08:47:39 2012] Talenos tries to slash Maestro of Rancor, but misses!

Almost two minutes later the second second wave consisting of numerous mobs including a second spite golem, kiraikuei, abhorrent, ire ghast and forsaken revenant came. It was larger than just 5 mobs but the first mention of new unique mob names in my logs appears at:

[Fri Nov 30 08:49:28 2012] A forsaken revenant hits Zorokk for 57 points of damage.
[Fri Nov 30 08:49:32 2012] An ire ghast tries to hit Zorokk, but misses!
[Fri Nov 30 08:49:36 2012] An abhorrent tries to hit Arttamis, but misses!
[Fri Nov 30 08:49:37 2012] A kiraikuei hits Houdiny for 117 points of damage.

The players hit in those logs were in camp from the time of engage until getting that aggro as my logs continuously show them attacking the mob. I know this isn't conclusive and I'm certain there could be some other explanation for it. However, Xadion was out there pulling and our pullers were in camp for almost 2 minutes prior to that additional aggro. I'm definitely biased being a member of FE but to me it looked like there was outside raid interference. Even if the first train was our it was locked down for almost 2 minutes and Maestro was around 50%. The mobs that actually caused a wipe was the second one.

Correct not saying you were, just moreso stating that the need for a hand to this current warrior who received it still was needed back in October. However, on that night for some reason it wasn't as important?

Maybe it's because I'm language switching back and forth at work right now, but I did not understand whatever you were trying to say lol. I would have liked to see the hand go to a main but rules are rules! I dont even know if the alt or the app could even zone into the planes in October, but yea!

Back to translating~

p obvious that TMO tried to snag Maestro first, failed, and consequently dropped their leftovers on everyone else -- accidentally no doubt.

It's not that they care enough to train you for Maestro, it's just that they care enough to race you and don't care enough to make sure they don't fuck you over in the process. No way was it intentional, but oh well, you got social on their train and wiped. Boo hoo, thanks for the hand.

Good luck getting anyone to care. The raid scene on this server has been an unmitigated disaster for two years. Learn to thrive in the muck or give way to a guild that will.

Not a huge fan of forceful penetration but... Good post. So you are saying the second wave of mobs that came 2 min after you all had engaged Maestro is what killed you guys? That's so odd, almost as if the train was intentional! But this is hard to believe for sure... Tmo always raids with the highest and most ethical standards. /popcorn. But please!! Continue!

Not a problem, the warrior in question was capable of being in the planes at the time. As you all have stated there are others who could use it within the guild anyway so for the sake of argument even if he hypothetically wasn't it doesn't answer the question that is presented. (Why wasn't the easier Maestro contested/killed back then whereas now there is this mess? The kill then there was no hand and this kill there was!) I am in complete agreeance the lack of details that has been presented thus far by the original poster lacks a full scale credible claim so far towards raid interference. However, the trend continues in regards to this similar training action being done as well as sketchy behavior being linked in regards to potential program use or just bending rules at will for the sake of grief.

Cause again late October a clean zone and uncontested Maestro while already being in zone (vs.) a zone that has more mobs up and another guild already there engaged/engaging with said mob while yourselves not fully being there yet.

Any sensible person who uses common sense can see a discrepancy and view it as suspicious, but as you explained people wanted to kill it again all of a sudden. To repeat: That just seems to be a little convenient given the situation at hand whereas the mob was still needed a month ago, but left sitting there open/available while you were in zone uncontested for a lengthy period then as opposed to the situation now.

Somebody's gotta have a video of this, cmon.

Sad to say but, these are truths.

Well as far as I know neither of the alts that were up there really were actively seeking a hand. Pretty sure they just used this opportunity to try and get it since it was personally convenient for them. All the happened was somebody said Maestro was up after Trak died and I was like if you wanna go get to WC and then thats what we did. Nobody said FEs up there nobody said stuff like that, so from my standpoint of getting people going that wasn't part of the equation.

Honestly, if you are saying Maestro was left up in a clear zone for hours on end, all I can say to you is that if I knew it was up I would have gotten a BP cleric and an Epic mage pet and would have tried to make some cash!!