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Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow (Post 828628)

I don't know? Ask Autotune. I'm merely defending my initial statement that allowing training in VP is dumb and by converting VP to a normal zone it will open up more content for everyone because TMO will have to legitimately defend VP instead of using an army of trainers thus benefitting the entire top heavy raid scene.

Also, for the love of god put Dojo on variance.

I've seen you training in VP. You should understand that pathing is so fucked in there that accidental trains will be commonplace. Its not enforceable. Therefore train on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 (Post 828626)

Dude killing trakanon a few times over the course of years does not a VP guild make. FE has killed trakanon almost as much as BDA in a few weeks. FE is a realistic raid guild for this server. BDA is a casual idealist guild. EQ.... is ... not... casusal.

FE has killed Trak a dozen or so times in the past 2 weeks? Man y'all must be slipping.

BDA never wanted to be the yin to TMO's yang. We were thrust into that position when IB left and VD folded into us. There was no one else because Taken and Div had dropped off. So we tried to assume that role and TMO thoroughly beat us with their superior numbers and gigantic chip on their shoulder they developed from their wars with IB.

There's a reason BDA shared every single raid target when TMO was suspended, it's because that's how we feel the game should be played. You do not. Stop comparing TMO to BDA because your measures of success are not the same as ours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow (Post 828636)

Stop comparing TMO to BDA because your measures of success are not the same as ours.

I agree so stop pretending you should be in our shoes. If you want to be a raid guild, be a raid guild. If you want rotations and instances..... find a game that has them.

Also, get a handle on the 2boxxing going on in your guild.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 (Post 828632)

I've seen you training in VP. You should understand that pathing is so fucked in there that accidental trains will be commonplace. Its not enforceable. Therefore train on!

Pathing and aggro does all kinds of wacky shit in Hate and the rules are enforced there. Why should VP be any different? The only argument you have to defend your position is that "it's classic."

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow (Post 828610)

You do realize that a large core of VP keyed players left BDA and went to FE right? FE has succeeded in getting non-VP targets by playing the game the way TMO had played it. (1)Recruit tons of people over every time zone. Camp out fully buffed for every single target so that upon spawning the mob can be tagged/pulled/killed in under 60 seconds. That type of play style suits TMO and FE but our playerbase would rather raid as a guild and focus on those types of shenanigans periodically. Their way isn't wrong, in fact if the goal is to net kills then they're obviously doing it right, but we focus on more than just killing dragons.

I'm not whining, we just have no interest in playing the game that way. However, saying that killing non VP targets somehow entitles a guild to VP targets is preposterous considering that we took numerous targets before FE filled that vacuum. As a guild BDA has killed every stupid mob aside from hoshkar and Nexona (got her to 4%) (2)so saying we've done very little content outside of VP is false.

1) That play style doesn't suit just those guilds, it is the best (known) way to raid on P99.

2) I didn't say you did very little content, I said your guild has very little gear. Your guild has only killed a handful of targets a few times. The VP keys you guys have/had, were mostly from guilds like VD and IB.

So yes, killing non-vp targets is a good way to show your guild is ready to be in VP, because your guild would be mostly geared from the other targets and the next natural progression is VP.

Killing things, just to have said you killed them = you're going to have a tough time without convincing people to just give you the chance on EQ/P99.

Casual raiding needs to realize it's casual and what comes with that in Everquest. This isn't WoW where you can be casual and also raid the end-game content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 (Post 828638)

uh.. when did the definition of "raid guild" change from "a guild that raids and kills targets" to "a guild that pulls trains and attempts to use every loophole in the rules to step on everyone else on their path to targets"

As far as I can tell BDA fits the first definition.. We raid, We kill targets.

Also, Can this thread be moved to rants and flames now? I think it belongs there..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autotune (Post 828641)

Casual raiding needs to realize it's casual and what comes with that in Everquest. This isn't WoW where you can be casual and also raid the end-game content.

Seems like we're doing it wrong then.. 'cause we've been raiding end game content for at least 2 years now..

*GASP* Perhaps you're wrong!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furme (Post 828646)

it belongs there because people like you can't refrain from making posts with

Quote:

a guild that pulls trains and attempts to use every loophole in the rules to step on everyone else on their path to targets

in them. Look at aresenal's first post as well.

Glad to see the numbers are still up!

Came here in December and am having a good time.

-Boogre / Leftoe - SoWs make good bacon!

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow (Post 828640)

Pathing and aggro does all kinds of wacky shit in Hate and the rules are enforced there. Why should VP be any different? The only argument you have to defend your position is that "it's classic."

Hate is a perfectly pathing functional zone compared to VP. They aren't even comparable.