[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

T1 guilds working probably 100X as hard for 6-7x more and that's if the tiers stay this way into the future. seems fair.

If you're being sarcastic (difficult to tell over text): Hardcore guilds get their fun out of doing that. If you don't, enjoy it the casual way. For many other people, this is work and not a game. Instead, they'd rather have fun building alliances, maintaining rotations and peace between a coalition of guilds, introducing new raid guilds to the content, and things of that nature.

There are two indivisible types of raider on this server. Casuals don't work less hard, they work harder in different ways, because they want a different experience. Maintaining a rotation is not simple. Maintaining an alliance or an agreement is not simple. It's herding cats. But that is fun to a different type of person from those who find it fun to do all the work hardcore raiders do. So, no, that is not fair.

You want fairness? Read John Rawl's A Theory Of Justice. Not only is he one of the most renowned political philosophers of the 20th century, but he has a definition of fairness that persists to this day, even making it into a recent episode of Doctor Who as a means of conflict resolution. What is fairness? Fairness is if you make people bargain in which they do not know what their bargaining positions are. Meaning, if you can abstract yourself for a moment, and think what agreement would people come to if they didn't know if they were hardcore or casual, or if they were in a hardcore or casual guild? What policies would be implemented? That's the crux of fairness, as it isn't skewed by individual bias, not by superior bargaining position. And in such a case, the staff plan which provides for the 6-7x more mobs would probably be seen as unfair in the eyes of people in an original position, as it gives too much. No rational person betting on whether they would be hardcore or casual, and in one of 3, or one of 7, would create rules so skewed. But the casuals here have accepted that.

That's 30-35 a month for T1, and 5 for T2. So, 1 a day vs 1.25 a week, per guild. Or, for the competitive side, 3 pops a day approximately to fight over. That's not a bad compromise. Let T1 shape the way they want to use their share of the mobs, and T2 shape the way they want to use their share of the mobs. If the casuals want to rotate, let them rotate. If the hardcores want to FFA, let the hardcores FFA. That's more than enough to rotate, and more than enough to FFA.

We want a chance to earn our epics, and we want a fair share of those mobs. VP was surrendered as your playground, but things like CT/Inny/Trak... People like me do a lot of work in this game, but don't want your atmosphere. To say we have to delve into your atmosphere for the sake of achieving our goals is counter productive to the goals of lessening the conflicts between guilds. The hardcore atmosphere is toxic to me. The casual atmosphere would probably be toxic to you. The best way to reduce conflicts between guilds are to keep ideologically opposite groups separated in such a way that they can each enjoy the atmosphere they love most, without either side's atmosphere hurting the other. Let each enjoy their half. That's what Rogean's plan provides for. It lets each side enjoy their half, and leaves VP alone for now, and for when we get keys, unless we want to delve into your territory, and compete on your terms. Hardcores get to have the environment they want, and casuals get the environment they want.

This is not only just, it is fair, and it has the best chance at creating a longer lasting reduction of conflict between guilds, by letting each side experience the raiding atmosphere they want, without being detrimental to the other in any way other than sharing the pops. It even bumps back to Tier 1 if a Tier 2 raid takes too long to get it, depending on how Tier 2 decides to allocate pops for themselves. Seeking more than this seems less about wanting competition (which the plan provides for), and more about wanting schadenfreude. And that really isn't helpful to us all enjoying the game in our own ways.

So far, the best argument I have heard is that if FE + IB unite, then by Rogean's written plan (as it stands), it'd be a rotation in Tier 1, since if you previously got the kill, you can't get it again when it comes back to your tier. But I am certain no Tier 2 guild is going to care how Tier 1 handles their pops. If it bounces back to Tier 1, I am sure no one will mind letting it be FFA for the Tier 1 guilds, whether it be a 3 way fight, or a 2 way fight with the IB + FE coalition. So, that's an easy fix to let hardcores get their environment, and let casuals build theirs.

Now, if you were not being sarcastic, I agree, because that's what they find to be fun. And this is a game about fun. So to each their own. Different styles for different people.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually had very similar thoughts running through my head randomly yesterday, though mostly in the context of class interactions not levels and such. A game like WoW might "gain" something with more mechanics used in every fight, but it loses even more by removing some of the roles EQ had (debuffer, buffer, CCer, puller)... and that makes the game more boring when there are only 3 roles and their interactions with each other are very limited in scale compared to when you have 7+.

WoW really did lose a lot. I notice that a lot of the difference in WoW and EQ has to do with CC and the necessity for it. One thing you could never do in WoW is Fear Kite, because CC breaks on damage. In EQ, it has a chance to break on damage (unless a mez, etc), so you can create some useful, interesting strategies for engaging mobs that are actually equally as strong as you are. A level 50 character versus a level 50 mob... That's a dangerous fight, lol. Not so in modern MMOs. It is quite sad.