[wts]

TLDR warning.

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was wondering if you watched this series. I did. I liked. Have you read the book series? If so, opinion?

I've only watched the first two episodes so I'm not hooked but I liked what I saw and will be watching the entire series. I'm considering picking up the first book because it's so highly recommended by Martin.

I've kind of been looking for the next major fantasy series (yes I understand Cornwell's work is considered historical fiction, but it's close enough). In high school, I read a lot of series (stuff like Belgariad, Shannara, Lord Foul's Bane). A lot of it I didn't consider to be very good so I got away from reading fantasy. Once I started playing EQ in 99, I quickly became aware of WoT because I ran into so many people with derivative names (I always ask about names I think are cool). For example, Rhoulette, the leader of Ubi Soft's former team of professional female gamers the Frag Dolls, was Siuan on Vallon Zek.

Later EQ people also made me aware of GoT. So now I need your help once again EQ people! What should I read? LotR, GoT and WoT are the holy trinity of fantasy series for me. I consider GoT the best because I like the moral complexities more than LotR and WoT where evil is a genetic trait. If you're an orc or a trolloc or a fade, you're automatically evil. Evil is not a choice. In Game of Thrones, evil is a choice. Thus, it resonates more with me because it presents a more nuanced worldview in my opinion.

Martin particularly praises the battle scenes in Cornwell's books. My father was First Cavalry Division Airmobile infantry in 68-69 in Vietnam. In other words, although over dramatized a bit, he did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtehtSB0LI

I grew up with my father's stories of what real guerilla warfare is like. Typically, he never saw the faces of those he was fighting. The Hueys would fly my father's company out to the middle of the jungle somewhere and they would wander around until they made contact, fire a bunch of rounds into the bush and call in a fire mission (see the movie Bat 21 for a very accurate representation of what it's like to get caught in the middle of the fire mission your company commander just called in, which happened to my dad. He was the only survivor from his platoon).

Because of my dad, I have a specific interest in military tactics (I'm also ex-Army but I was a 46Q military journalist, i.e. pencil pusher). I'm extremely critical of the way military conflicts are represented in fiction. Thus I'm curious if Cornwell is as good as Martin says he is. The BBC show is just as bad as HBO's GoT at depicting military conflicts, so I won't be watching the show for that. But I got into the characters and the story a bit so I'll be catching up on the episodes soon.

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I view Alliser Thorne on the show as more of a misguided tragic figure. Not sure where I got this sense of faux sympathy for this misguided, small minded ...

Azzar I find the difference beteween our opinions of Thorne fascinating. Thorne is hands down one of my favorite characters on the show. I really think he's the best thing about the show because the showrunners used him to pull off a trick Martin uses in the books. They take a character and make you hate him initially like Martin did with Jaime, then present heroic qualities in that character which cause some viewers to sympathize with a character they previously found loathsome.

You apparently never developed the sympathies I did with Thorne. Mine are based on the seige of Castle Black. My father had his shortcomings, but whenever there was a crisis he was always at his best. When the shit hit the fan, he was always the person you turned to to analyze the situation with the coolest head. Thorne has his shortcomings as a character, but when the shit went down at Castle Black he was exactly the sort of man you want to have on your side. He didn't flinch and cower like whats his name. He led his men to victory, however temporary.

Frank Zappa has been called the most important American composer. His last band featured a bass player who had no social skills. He was a phenomenal musician but he wasn't good at small talk and social interaction. This rubbed other members of the band the wrong way and they approached Zappa and asked him to replace the bass player.

By that point, Zappa had already gone to the expense of renting rehearsal space and flying the band in to prepare for a tour. Replacing one musician in Zappa's mind would have essentially entailed starting over. Instead, Zappa fired the band, cancelled the tour and never worked with humans again. He started composing on the Synclavier, an early digital platform for music composition. He started making the music in his head, music that human beings were physically incapable of performing.

The point of the story is that Zappa felt that, even if his bass player wasn't good at social interaction, he still had value because he was world-class at one thing: playing the bass guitar. He felt like the band should have focused on the positives of what the bass player brought to the band and forgiven him for the negatives that shouldn't have impacted their ability to play music together. I can forgive Thorne for being an asshole because I know he's a good man to have around in a life or death situation.

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As to the assassination attempt, i don't recall any meeting or vote on it - if that's what you're implying. it was a cabal, brought on my fear and loathing at Jon bringing wildings through the wall. It was insurrection and murder. Tricking Jon to come out of his room and carrying out the deed in the dark, on the down low. Not chivalrous or becoming of a knight.

How is it murder if Jon broke his vows and publicly proclaimed his intention to invade the Seven Kingdoms with a force of wildlings? Of course they would carry out the execution under cover of night. They know the wildlings are likely to kill them to a man once they know that Snow is dead.