[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But for the majority of that level range mobs have a really low HP pool, so gear suckage is irrelevant. You can burn through mobs in a group with bronze armor and mino axes lol.

This is completely wrong. You will kill VERY slowly with mino axes only.

A group of 5 Mages and 1 Healer will get at least 4x more kills than a group of 5 melee and 1 healer with that kind of gear. Or even just slotting 1 Mage into said melee group (which you could argue as being the more realistic scenario), you will see a big increase in kill rate.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have been in groups like that, and they were great. Sorry you suck.

In terms of gaining exp/farming, they were not "great". Maybe you liked the people you were playing with, maybe you had fun, but you factually were achieving far less gains. What everyone finds fun will vary, but I definitely do not find it fun to be extremely inefficient in a game like this that is already a big timesink.

When I started EQ in 1999 and was a Shaman and would group with 5 Warriors out in the Everfrost tundra, that was actually some of the most fun I've had, because of how new and dangerous it all was, and how it was a normal thing to be doing at the time (and also because the group was totally dependent on me for heals). But now? Pretty much everyone knows how to level faster and where to farm and how to avoid danger better. At the higher levels where it becomes increasingly difficult to make progress, it is INCREDIBLY boring to play this game without aiming for good efficiency, trying to pull as much as possible and get as many kills as possible, which also re-invites a chance of danger if the group overextends on its resources.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The flaw with this argument is you don't seem to understand that a lot of games DO have DPS checks. In those games, if you don't meet the DPS check, you don't get to do the content. Period.

P99 doesn't work this way. Gear checks don't happen, because it doesn't really matter. If DPS mattered, group compositions and gear requirements would be much stricter across the board when doing public groups.

Again, gear checks do happen. It's not the norm, but I usually asked melee what weapon they have when forming a group. If they had a shit weapon I would look for someone else, because DPS is ultimately what matters. The point of forming an exp/farm group is to get better exp. If the person joining the group is not going to create a "gain" in some way, then there is no point in bringing them.

If p99 had some kind of standardized prize that's only given to groups that can clear a certain area or kill a certain number of MOBs within a specified time limit, then you would definitely see people caring more. This does actually exist already, but only informally, for the people who want to spend their time as efficiently as possible, which for a new server is incredibly relevant for getting to a certain level and claiming a certain item camp faster than others. And for a non-new server it's still relevant for getting more alts and/or better gear to put your guild in a better position over another guild.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Min/Maxed groups are never going to be running 6 people, so you need to consolidate roles by getting classes that can do multiple things.

Not true with a proper exp bonus in place for grouping, like the one that exists on Red server. Plus on Red server you inherently might want extra people to help defend against possible PvP. Funny how PvP Everquest has FAR more interesting PvE. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, you do often want 6 people for a min/maxed guild group anyway, as it directly benefits the guild for everyone to level up.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But on P99 most groups can be successful with most content, regardless of gear and composition. This is simply fact.

That is not a fact whatsoever. Especially since the definition of "successful" is personal. For many people, playing the game like a grandpa who just discovered the internet is not a successful or fun way to play.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A well tuned xp group is not going to bring a pure DPS with no utility. That is a waste of a group slot.

You don't understand how to create a "well tuned" xp group, it would seem.

-----

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd stand by what I said at the beginning of the thread, pre-Kunark rogues are VERY sub-optimal to the degree that it definitely does make a difference and I don't blame anyone for not really wanting them in groups if they had the choice on green.

If we were talking actual 1999 era Everquest, then yeah I'd say Rogue was the overall worst class. Backstab did less damage back then, "evade" didn't exist, and sneak/hide were no different than normal invis. Poisons also didn't work back then. But all of those things have been ignored in the timeline on p99, AFAIK. Rogues on p99 Green started in their 2000-era form.

That said, even with pre-buff Backstab, a Rogue could do a bit higher DPS than most other melee. So if you just use root properly for proximity aggro (which tons of people didn't understand back then), then you don't need Evade and can get your DPS in. There was also the month in 1999 where "Whirl Til You Hurl" was broken, which Rogues were able to benefit from.

Another quirk is that stealing was much more powerful back then, Rogues could get way more items from NPCs. I recall Fires of Heaven saying their Rogues were getting shit off Nagafen before they were able to kill him for the 1st time. So, when looked at that way, Rogues were secretly good? But that got changed pretty quickly too.