[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All true ... and yet it also remains true that a non-raid Shaman will likely spend 95+% of their Shaman career without hitting the cap.

Your understanding of what gear a non-raid Shaman can get is simply way off base. Please stop saying this unless you can actually provide evidence for it. Show us some Magelos of what you think a "non-raid" Shaman looks like 95% of the time. And if you use someone so poor that they are just in Banded, then again starting stats don't matter. You have bigger problems (i.e. poor gear).

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can keep repeating "the only reason is" until you're blue in the face, but it's neither evidence nor a logical argument. Although I do agree that a Shaman could save a buff slot as you describe, it's entirely irrelevant to this thread because non-raid Shaman don't hit buff limits either.

Please tell me how it isn't a logical argument, besides you just saying so. You haven't provided any evidence. You can easily hit max buffs self buffed on a Shaman lol, and you don't need to be in a raid to get buffs from other people. I am hitting max buffs in the bravatar video, and that's all self buffed.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a variant of the "stats don't matter argument ... which amuses me because only a few pages ago you were arguing on the other side of that debate:

But to the extent they do matter ... having more HP > Mana.

I think you missed the point of my quote. I was pointing out the flaw in the "starting stats don't matter argument". You can say that starting stats don't matter that much, AND one choice is superior over the other[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] It is not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, so your best evidence that Mana > HP is that ... you kinda came close to running out of mana ... and also HP ... in an 17+ minute fight (a fight where you exchanged HP and mana about a gazillion times by casting spells). A fight which, I might add, is not something a 1-59 Shaman can do, or even a 60 Shaman without Torpor (and some decent gear too I'd imagine).

In other words, even if Mana > HP in that fight ... it still doesn't change the fact that HP > Mana for the 95+% plus of the Shaman's career before that.

So just to recap, the reasons (multiple) to choose Stamina for your starting stat points over Wisdom are:

• to free up a buff slot if you are a hardcore raider
• to have more HP (which is more valuable than mana) for the vast majority of your Shaman's life, if you are not

Your best evidence against putting points into WIS is that you didn't run out of mana while leveling. Which is anecdotal and we can't prove it. I have actual evidence while you have nothing. Unfortunately video evidence trumps random anecdote. In that video I get down to 7% Mana. That is 210 Mana, which is literally what I am getting from the 25 WIS I put into my starting stats lol. This is undisputable video proof of the 25WIS coming in to play.

Furthermore, if you inspect any up and coming Shaman, you will find more Shrunken Goblin Skull Earrings than Star of Eyes, so obviously most people do not mind taking a hit on their max HP for a clickie. If people are willing to lose 35HP for a clickie, I am not sure why you think it is a stretch for them to lose a bit more HP on their starting stats.