[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A theoretical Enc/Enc/Enc/Shm group with the Shaman tanking could work fine at 60.

You seem to be agreeing with me then. I have always been talking about the four man group at level 60. I don't see the benefit of min/maxing the group from 1-59 since it is easy to level to 60 with a four man group, unless you do something odd like four Rogues. You want to build your group around what you want to do at level 60. If you are the type of player that never gets to 60, this thread isn't as relevant. You can level quickly with 4 Mages, and stop in your 50s or where-ever you typically end up stopping if you just want to play with friends and not worry about end game content.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but would be MUCH weaker from 1-59 and until the Shaman is raid geared and has Torpor. Conversely, a group with a Cleric has access to CH from level 39 on, and the Cleric requires basically no gear to be effective.

I disagree here. The Shaman only needs Torpor, they don't need raid gear to Torpor Tank. Enchanter spells are expensive as well, so the group is planning on buying quite a few expensive spells anyway.

Also, people don't really think about the math of CH at lower levels. Here is a post I made in a different thread:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let me put it another way. Looking at my parses, my 51 Monk took 1200 damage from fighting a level 42 guard. My Monk has 1800 HP, so that would have been CH'ed. That means CH is a 3 to 1 mana ratio in this scenario.

With https://wiki.project1999.com/Tagar%27s_Insects , a 51 Shaman is slowing for around 45% at 125 mana. That reduces the 1200 damage to 660 damage. If you spend 250 mana on Superior Healing, that reduces the total damage taken to 136. At level 52 with Regrowth, that 136 is reduced to zero if the fight lasted a minute.

For 395 mana (including 20 mana a minute for Regrowth) the Shaman mitigated the same damage as the CH. CH costs 400 mana.

Realistically a Cleric isn't even doing that much better than a Shaman until the group is in it's 50s in terms of healing. CH efficiency is dependent on max HP, which a lower level player or lower level charmed pet has less of.