[Sirken]

if u have questions ask them and i will answer them. good questions will be added to the FAQ.

trolling, complaining, and shitting up this thread will result in your posts being deleted at the bare minimum.




Added Player Questions:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so i see no mention of 15 on a spawn, was that removed?

15 people on a spawn is stupid. if u want to claim the mob, then engage the mob.

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also plane of hate and fear are back to the way they were? pull anything anywhere with kites?

Kiting raid mobs is not ok, Kiting trash is ok. that does not mean training is ok. if you are kiting mobs, be aware of the aggro radius, and do not kite them in ways that will purposely train other players. accidents happen, and we dont want to punish anyone for accidents. The staff will look at all evidence and then the staff (not the players), will decide if the actions were done with malicious intent.

Originally Posted by Anon

"Q: I've seen guilds engage raid targets with just warrior/cleric teams who can survive until raid forces log in, as well as players pulling FTE on targets before their guild is in the zone, because they know/think their guild can log/zone in before said target arrives at the 'camp' (faydedar being a strong example). Would either of those type of situations count as keeping a mob occupied? I used to see that happen all the time, as being regular engage strategies, but nothing ever said of it as breaking any rule.

any guild takes a chance when they engage with a couple people and then simply hope the rest of the guild logs in, in time to slay the mob. its a very valid, legal, and risky tactic, and will not be punished

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This part is outdated - the last few patches did in fact have a full repop, and for about a year patches have (inconsistently) respawned all raid mobs. Although it's a bit unclear it seems that if there's (a) a content patch or (b) scheduled maintenance that brings the server down, all mobs get respawned, assuming there wasn't a patch the day before or something ridiculous like that.

Nilbog says: This is part of my upcoming raid/spawn proposal. I want every patch to zero all respawn timers. If this is integrated, the rules will be rewritten to reflect.

Originally Posted by Writ3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It still seems to me the classic way would promote more competition. I can see the aspect of fairness in relation to variance due to timezone issues resulting in a kill always laying within a comfortable range for certain timezones (could be altered using patch respawns). However, with a set timer that more than 1 or 2 guilds knows about brings forth more true competition and hope outside of a patch/reset for the up and coming guilds to experience certain encounters.

I know nilbog has made jokes about zergs and such prior so it seems some people higher up appreciate the aspect of there being more guilds getting involved like the old days on here where multiple guilds actually competed for 1 target.

Q: Why is there a spawn variance? This isn't classic!
A: While we strive to be as accurate as we can in terms of classic content, this is something that we feel is necessary to keep things running smooth. We believe the spawn variance method promotes both fairness and competition. Please note that we do not refresh the mob spawn times with a crash or patch. On live all raid targets re-spawned with a patch which usually caused bunches of raid targets to spawn. So on live Nagafen or Vox kills were not always exactly one week apart.

Originally Posted by Eccezan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Given that the kiting rule has been overruled with this new GM change I have a couple questions about some recent rule changes.
1) Using Eye of Zomm wall glitch to zone in to target / train zone in? Is this still illegal?
2) Regarding VP raiding: Is using ledge in the picture room to fight dragons still illegal? Currently guilds are not allowed to position a dragon on the ledge in the picture room and fight him there due to vague "pathing exploits." Given the change in GM's, and the changes to the AE in zone (now outdoor zone, walls do not block AE), the ledge no longer offers any strategic PVE advantage during the actual fight encounter. Are we allowed to position dragons there to fight now?

Eccezan - 1) yes still illegal. 2) also still illegal. ill talk to Nilbog and Rogean about it though, and if they feel it should be changed, we will change it.

Originally Posted by Zeelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the rules clarification Sirken!
One question I have though, is, what are the rules pertaining to perceived kiting? I.E. Guild A pulls RaidNPC, Guild B feels as if it is not a straight pull so they decide to take the pull.
This has been ongoing behavior that has seen no repercussions except in one recent instance, but all further instances that followed that one have gone unenforced.
As far as I am aware, this is unacceptable behavior. (aka Two wrongs don't make a right - as you mentioned). Even if a guild is kiting, would it not be best to just catch the kite on fraps for GM review rather than allow pull stealing?
A clear statement regarding this behavior would be appreciated. Thanks

You hit the nail on the hit; Two wrongs don’t make a right. I know it shouldn’t be like this, but all top end guilds need a person running fraps because shenanigans seem to occur most often when staff is not around, and it truly, truly helps us. When I see blatant douchebaggery I will obviously suspend for it. But I’m not a nazi either. I have raid experience in EQ, and I understand that sometimes things like FTE can be extremely close, and I understand that things can just happen in the heat of battle, but there’s still a line that shouldn’t be crossed. P99 may not be a PvP server, but it is still a competitive raiding server. And as such, the staff wants to encourage heated, competitive contests between the guilds. We just want those contests decided by dedication and skill instead of garbage and griefing. Losing with class is always better than winning like a douchebag. That being said, kiting raid mobs is not allowed. However, it is not for guildB to decide if guildA is breaking the rules. They are neither judge nor jury. if guildA was caught breaking the rules I would remove the loots and suspend characters that needed it. If it happened a second time I would be forced to punish the guilds leadership for the actions of their members as well as the members involved; consider it P99’s version of a RICO act. If however guildB decided to KillSteal mob I would then remove the loots and punish them for KSing in the same fashion id punish guildA for cheating. Please do not make me be a bad guy. i’m here to make your lives easier, not to make them harder. I’m very easy to talk to, and I’m always willing to discuss situations with players if the need arises.

Originally Posted by sanluen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, just to clarify, we can claim mobs that are not on a variance (particularly epic mobs, phinny, etc) by waiting at their spawn point? Granted they are pretty much 3-6 man encounters, but just making sure.
Thanks!

to be safe, consider all raid mobs FTE. i personally think dropping 12 people, or 15 people on a spawn point to "claim" a raid mob is the dumbest shit in the entire world. the staff supports heated competition for raid mobs as opposed to who can leave a group of alts afk on a certain spot. not to mention, the logs dont show us that x amount of people were sitting at 'xyz' location.
as i said earlier in this thread, this is the easiest balance between staff being able to enforce, and the players being able to easily understand and follow.

Originally Posted by Joroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if your running 50% of a zone in circles and a raid mob adds to that pack is that considered FTE?

if you are kiting a buncha mobs around- that do not include the boss- your okay- then if the boss is picked up on that kite it then needs to be brought to the raid imidiately along with the rest of the kite... or the entire thing needs to be dropped with out it training another guild/group etc.

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the only point of clarification would be is then if you can peel said boss off the train and have the kite CC of the rest of the mobs contiune as it was before the boss got cought up in the kite. or do you have to kill the entire train at the time of engagement with the boss.

you can kite trash. just dont train other players with your trash. if i understand correctly, your basically saying.. "what if when my guildie is kiting all the trash in PoF, the Draco accidentally gets caught up in the kiting, what do i do!?!" in that situation, it is the players responsibility to peel Draco off the kite immediately and pull it towards the raid group. if Draco is not pulled immediately to the raid group, then it would have to be considered as kiting a raid mob, and thats against the rules. so while kiting trash mobs is allowed, it can be a dangerous tactic if its not done with precision. don't kite raid mobs.

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With the most recent rules for hate/fear having been rescinded what will be the policy on accidental trains and such? Specifically accidents that would negate a competing guilds chance at a target. Also, you said FTE will be the deciding factor for the most part; what about bangbang types of situations where FTE is maybe decided one second apart from a mob spawning? Would loot be awarded to the FTE guild via GM or would the raid with the XP prevail?

like i already said, accidents happen, if u make one, try to make it right. we can see who had first to engage, regardless of how close it is/seems. lets say Trakanon spawns, and GuildA and GuildB move for trak. GuildA attacks and a half second later GuildB attacks, but GuildB does more and gets the loots. in the logs, we will see that GuildA had first to engage, and we will remove the loots from GuildB and give them to GuildA. but KSing can not be catered to, or rewarded.

Originally Posted by Shinko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

eye balls to zone in to COH ur raid is still bad right?

indeed. still bad.

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to echo the concerns of my honorable colleague as they have not been directly addressed. Example: raid force A (20 TMO 15 enraptured) and raid force B (35 BDA) and raid force C (5 Divinity) and raid force D (10 asgard) are all in Sky when Noble Djorn is about to spawn. Everyone on the server knows when it will spawn and will have their force on island 1.5 waiting for it to spawn at exactly oh let's say 8pm. Everyone engages and kills Noble in 10 seconds of spawning, divinity group loots and scoots. No GM on to determine FTE, so overseer is sitting there. Overseer is a spawned mob that is owned directly by the group that kills Noble as long as they engage within 20 minutes of it spawning. This is a very real and super confusing weekly event based on these new raiding policies. How is this better or any more competitive than the first guild to have 15 members on the spot? At least the first 15 on spawn have to kill teh mob theirselves and not rely on 3 other guilds to dps for them.

Q: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Idol -> Avatar of War), the guild that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild on a first to engage basis once the first guild has either wiped or not engaged within the time limit.
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unless of course you are implying that none of the guilds know who had FTE on Djorn. in that case, guilds are going to have to do the best they can. like ive said before, im not here to punish people for accidents; i am however here to punish for general douchebaggery.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, I'm all for FTE shouts. My main question isn't fully solved by FTE shouts. I think we all know being the fastest jav in the West is a bit silly when there's no raid present. While those situation are rare, they have occurred. I'm curious to know where Sirken sits on that.

i think it would be a good idea if it wasn't so easy to manipulate, if it didn;t force Rogean and Nilbog to write extra code, and a couple other things. like ive said before, i understand the current system is not perfect, but it honestly is the best way for now.

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That begs another question. What about FTE sniping? Both with sufficient force NOT in range to engage (say a 45 man raid on the North Wall, while 2 monks javelin CT while the other force moves in) and with an insufficient force engaging while using another guild to DPS (think 12 man Trak while 35 people from Guild A DPS)

take a log or SS of whos in the zone (/w all zone) and send it in with your petition. once upon a time i was in a guild that was literally seconds away from engaging trak when a monk from a competing guild let fly his javelin. we killed trak, yet the other guild got the loots because they had FTE. and yea, it sucked we didnt get the loots, but i had to tip my hat to that monk. but i mean, i'm not an idiot either. if u show me that GuildA had 35 in zone, and that GuildB had 5 in zone. and that GuildB let fly a javelin (technically gaining FTE), i'm not going to take away GuildAs loots. now if both guilds have sufficient raid forces, that would be a different story. you're going to notice in time that i'm a very big advocate of "common sense" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]