[Throndor]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to be clear: the real Marxist solution (not that shit Lenin/Stalin/Mao did) is to give workers the means of production.

If people that worked for Apple/Ford/Nike etc. ALONE owned stock shares -- and all companies worked that way -- Marx posits that things will work much better for everyone over time.

So the idea that the government should get everything and distribute according to state goals is actually more fascist than Marxist. If you actually read what the man wrote, he said: "Workers take over the means of production and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat.

Dictatorship, not democracy. But proletariat, not Leninist elites. No Vanguard, no government control, no small elite politburo controlling society.

THAT BEING SAID

Government can be used for certain things people want cheaply. They are better at some things (insurance, natural resources, transportation, and education) than others.

This is not Marxist but some shit that Keynes came up with in the 1920-30s. We're pretty sure he was right that the government can be used to stimulate the economy if done correctly. It is also highly beneficial to have a safety net.

That above part -- that isn't even Marxist -- is what rightwing Americans are progrommed to hate. The capitalist welfare state, not the (Marxist) goal of rich workers.

Marx actually said the state itself would be unneeded eventually and wither away. We will all just have plenty and take care of each other. The dictatorship is a temporary phase.

I think that last part has proven to be quite unrealistic. Modern Marxists tend to mix democracy with Marxist thought. They see it more as worker co-ops + some goverment intervention for welfare/environment. They want to end big banks and wallstreet mostly.

Keyword being workers; not do nothing lumpenproletariots sitting on their ass on psych meds collecting disability.