[Ennewi]

https://web.archive.org/web/20051217...php/t-374.html

Ghob Owar
04-02-2002, 06:33 PM
"In the last patch Slow spells for both Enchanters and Shamans were altered so that they now have disease counters. Has this made them into a spell which can now be removed by Cure Disease instead of Cancel Magic?
Yes, that was the goal behind the change to the spell lines.

Getting slowed by an NPC is incredibly debilitating to players, and up until now you either had to just be sad until the spell wore off or risk dispelling all of your positive buffs while trying to remove the slow. This change should add value to classes that can cure disease and make the spell line more useful.

We are aware that there is a problem with slow spells generating additional agro due to the disease component, and hope to have that fixed in the next spells patch.

- Rich Waters"

WooT! No more waiting for slow to wear without losing 1/2 my buffs! Yay Diseeeze!

Mynegon
04-02-2002, 06:55 PM
Watch them screw up agro on Disease Clould etc, fixing this.

Nocifer Deathblade
04-03-2002, 09:07 AM
I -REALLY- hope that they don't weaken our cherished disease cloud aggro power as side effect from that darn slow aggro change...

Rhumba_Kween
04-03-2002, 10:01 AM
When I saw this this morning, the first thing I thought was "Oh great they're gonna indirectly nerf SK's fixing this"

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'll be they just lower the hate component of disease spell, and that would be bad.

We shall see.

Rhumba

Moongaden
04-03-2002, 02:10 PM
DC was indirectly nerfed last year when they made all spells less resistable. I (and all the SK's i talked to in game) said that DC seemed to be giving about 1/3'rd of the aggro.

We used to be kings of aggro, now we're almost playing like bards chain casting DC if we ever want to get hit

Walil
04-03-2002, 02:22 PM
They really need to change the aggro on slow. It's completely insane right now. I had a ranger, warrior, and rogue in my group last night and none of them could pull off me. The only person who could was my shadowknight. Using spells like the screams and Dooming Darkness I could get aggro but it was a pain.

If the changes to aggro indirectly effect disease cloud I think we can live with it. We have a ton of other spells that are hefty in mana cost but do the same job. Trust me, it's better to have disease cloud nerfed then having to rez your shaman after every pull.

As far as I'm concerned. Sk's are still the kings of gaining aggro.

Rhumba_Kween
04-03-2002, 03:05 PM
Sorry we should not have to live with it? Capitulating because it benefits another one of your chars seems wrong to me.

Why should we have to be nerfed because of a change to another class?

Enchanter changes have caused so much indirect nefage its not funny. Pet aggro is a prime example. Their pets got too powerful when they could gain aggro, so VI changes the aggrro that pets can get to almost nothing and they indirectly nerfed mages that rely so heavy on their pets.

I think it is very important that we submit through dev corner letting them know to not nerf DC when they change aggro for the slows.

Rhumba

Walil
04-03-2002, 04:18 PM
Look I'm not saying fix my shaman at the cost of nerfing the shadowknight class. If they absolutely have to reduce the aggro on disease in order to fix the problem then I can live with it.

I like having the option to cure slow without removing buff spells. In my opinion this more than makes up for my shadowknight having to change her spell line up a bit to gain aggro.

Now if they can fix the slow aggro issue without changing the way Disease Cloud acts as a taunt that would be awesome. Since they haven't specified what their solution is I'm not really going to worry about it.

Darko
04-03-2002, 08:09 PM
I also remember them stating something about lowering agro that Dease counter generate, I am hoping this wont affect Dease Cloud spell, cause that would reall y screw the SK taunt abilities....
The have done this once before "unintentionaly" a few months ago, when they lowerd the agro enchanter debuffs generate, which effected Shadow Vortex etc..

Naelael Sang'Noir
04-03-2002, 10:32 PM
IMO, the only way a SK shouldnt have disease cloud mem'd is you are soloing.. They better not nerf disease cloud aggro.

Nocifer Deathblade
04-04-2002, 09:14 AM
Heh, LOTS of high level SK players on my server never ever used Disease cloud and they told me that they stopped using it since lvl 15. I guess those type of Sks are basically twinkees and PLed to high level. I kept telling them that they ought be shot down if they never used it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Disease cloud is one of required spell slot if you are main tank and needs to taunt..

Valkyria Grymreaper
04-04-2002, 09:38 AM
Took me a while to realize just how good DC still is - even after all the advice fellow SKs kept giving me. I'm glad I keep it memmed now.

Example: was asked to tank in Chardok last night. Taunt or two on mezzed mobs and pop them with DC = mob never left me to go slap the chanter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My spell set up currently:

1. Siphon Life
2. Abduction of Str
3. Shroud of Hate (god i cant wait til Torrent of Hate...)
4. Disease Cloud
5. Engulfing Darkness (Dooming if a crack dealer present)
6. Grim Aura
7. Scream of Death
8. Feign Death

synnoira
04-04-2002, 02:35 PM
i haven't seen a lot of aggro off the ATK drains personally, not to compare with DC anyhow
i'm sure you know this but DC is something you want to be careful of pulling since the DoT lasts a long old time and who knows if you get an add you may need to switch too
i use shadowvortex to establish aggro and follow that with DC i find that combo works very effectively and is quick and mana-cost effective, shroud of pain and clinging darkness to follow up if really required
btw if rooted casting DC on self breaks root i've had to do that a couple of times when rooted on pulling back, since the damage is so low from it its doesn't make a big difference to your health bar in the subsequent fight
i've never dueled, can't see the point, but i've read here that casting DC on self when dueling a chanter is also a good way to stop mezzes due to the DoT, but i can't tell you how true that is from my own experience

Groobash
04-04-2002, 05:11 PM
Faucetta...you notice yet that there are no other SKs here who don't keep DC perma memmed except when soloing?

hmmmmmmm

Do we have other spells to generate agro? Sure...but none of them make as much agro as fast or for such limited mana.

So when they butcher DC in an attempt to fix slows (you can *almost* count on it), and a SK tries prying a critter of your shaman but can't, remember what you said here while waiting for your rez...and the next one..and the next one...and the next one...

Chania
04-04-2002, 06:47 PM
"Judging from the tenor of your post I probably wouldn't take advice from you either." (In reference to Nocifer)

This made soda come out of my nose.

The people who don't use DC are the ones who unmemmed in around level 15 and never looked back. It is extremely powerful in the right hands.

velourea
04-04-2002, 07:51 PM
hey not to be mean, but could you just for a second swallow your raging pride. it's not good for you.

nocifer is a nice and good sk and is very knowledgeable. brael is a big meanie but knowlegeable nonetheless.

the reason that i think this topic is so touchy with the sk community is because the possibilty of nerfing DC agro would deeply impact the SK as a class. DC is one of the best taunt spells, due to its small mana cost and large taunt. shadow vortex and other spells are good but DC only costs 10 mana so you can chain cast it all day. agro control is the area of expertise of SK's and nerfing DC could have a seriously detrimental affect to how i for one would play the class. it is just speculation on whether verant in its infinite wisdom/laziness will cause the new tweaks with disease resist to affect all spells rather than just the slows, but i can say for myself that i sincerely hope not.

Krushum Gudended
04-04-2002, 10:07 PM
Not usin DC because it is a level nine spell is ignorant...

Can't count the number of times it has saved a caster from certain death for me, and because I am a troll (not the brightest start in the sky) the low mana cost is perfect.

I will really be pissed if this nerfed, even by an oversight.

Keyan Aubaine
04-04-2002, 11:17 PM
Sheesh.

What the hell is up with you these days ?

Get real, DC is a frelling level 9 spell, and you're all acting like if it was our number one class defining ability!
Sure it's a great way to agro without spending much mana or even losing damage with a long casting, you won't find me saying it isn't a very useful spell, but guess what ? If a level NINE spell becomes less efficient at level 60, i wont be whining about it saying they nerfed SKs.

Hell, i almost WISH they would nerf it (and i highly doubt this will happen) just so you would lose that lazy and whiny attitude. Shadow vortex, heart flutter, darkness... we have a crapload of spells to agro if we want to, and you're all complaining about a possible (and unlikely) nerf of a frelling level nine spell ? Commenting on the abilities of a poster simply because he prefers not to use that damn spell ?

You do realize what the hell you are arguing over ? A level NINE spell ? a mere 5 dmg nuke with a lousy 1 dmg/tick which just happens because of VI's poor hate list coding to generate a lot of agro ? Even if we lost some of the taunt value of this stupid spell, we would still keep all our 10 thousand other ways to taunt.

I'm reaching the 200 played days on my shadowknight, i also have 180 played days as a warrior, and almost 80 as a rogue, all of them have been part of the high end raids at one point or the other, killed tunare, fought the AoW.... i've done it all. I have been a poster on the knight watch for a while, and a lurker for much longer before that. I dont keep DC memed most of the time because i prefer to fit in spells that enhance my dmg output or my ability to tank more.
Yes the spell is extremely useful to taunt, i'm not going to deny it, but without it mobs still stay glued to my blue ass like flies on a troll's. Are you going to question my abilities as well, or are you going to lose that lazy attitude and realize you're able to do much more than chain cast that frelling spell you got when you hadn't even left your home city's surroundings ?

Days like this you guys remind me of the nerfhouse or the monkly business boards, damnit i know tihs community is able to do better.


PS: synnoira, you'll be forced to lick a troll's toes for that mistake!

Ronak
04-05-2002, 05:02 AM
DC was my staple up until my mid 50's. At about this time, I started
regularly grouping with a couple chanters who had heart attacks if I
cast a DoT on a mob with more than 1 in camp. I started using shadow
vortex, and a bit later, shroud of pain. Certainly a bit more mana intensive
than DC, but I have never had a problem with aggro since I stopped
using DC. Hell, I sometimes overaggro with just a few casts of SV/SoP.

Last night was the first time I memmed DC in about 5 months, believe it!
For the first time in ages I was in a bardless/chanterless group, in CT, and
DC performed its function perfectly. (low mana, good aggro spell)

A nerf to DC would have zero impact on me, but that doesn't mean I
want it nerfed. It is one of our tools, and a very good one.

As many of us know already, you can't just sit back quietly if something
is screwed up or nerfed, or it will start a trend. Nothx on DC nerfage,
it's still nice to have it to fall back on once in a while.

Side note:
If you have a chanter that doesn't mind DoTs, a very low mana taunt
alternative (IE, ZERO mana) is BE gaunts. Gotta love 0 mana aggro 'spells'.

Ronak
Gravelord of Machin Shin
Xegony

velourea
04-05-2002, 05:27 PM
nice, informative post keyan. (add keyan to the "knowledable sk's list" if you haven't already [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) personally, ive always believed that DC caused so much agro because it is a combination of a dd and dot. i think combination spells cause significantly more agro than single effect spells (e.g. like darkness with a dot and snare). this is just my personal speculation tho.

anyway, while DC is certainly not the only way to get agro, it is the most efficent that i have seen. i would love to cast Shadow Vortex every time a rogue/happy caster really pisses a mob off, but due to mana constraints at my level it simply isn't possible. even with clarity, it's barely enough mana regen to keep myself buffed with Shadow Vortex/Scream of Pain/Grim Aura/Scream of Death(some spells a few of you prolly have sitting collecting dust). I could cast SV but i'd have to stop every so often to med while the rest of the group is good to go. DC is the most convenient spell i have atm for agro management. I fully understand that this can change as i level, but for me and the majority of the SK population that isnt quite level 60 yet, DC is an invaluable tool. even casting something like clinging darkness is a bit of a hassle compared to the ease of DC. while many of the high-level sk's can find many other ways to taunt, i have found that for my general purposes, DC is the best way to make a mob love me.



velourea im a big meanie? =(

jk brael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Final post in the thread, a bump alluding to the nerf and subsequent feedback from affected players.

Krushum Gudended
05-11-2002, 08:40 AM
Thought I should bump this.... take a look at the dates Alan, we were dreading this from the moment this was announced.

I for one sent in an email to the Developer's Corner, and I am sure others did.

Please take a look at this post. :/

These dates also correspond with those highlighted in the post above.