[Ennewi]

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2000/01/26 　In EQVault , there was news that Gordon said on the forum that he was going to make Bard's Taunt weaker. Since Bard Song is a Party Member Buff, it seems to change the behavior of moving to the top of the Hate-List by saying "Buffing"... Well, I don't understand English well. It might be good news.

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Devamaru
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posted March 27, 2001 09:18 AM Profile for Devamaru Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
Bards don't advance any faster or slower than anyone else. They ARE very group friendly, and that will certainly help you getting into groups, provided the group has an inkling of what bards can do. (Or hasn't grouped with a bad bard).
Once you get past 18, you can start to solo effectively as well using various techniques. (Instrument fighting at 18, fear-kiting at 26, charm-kiting at 27).

Managing aggro is one of the worries that bards must deal with. I want to make bumper stickers: Mobs hate bards! In truth, think of bard aggro as ranging from somewhere between cleric aggro (moderately bad) to enchanter aggro (awful).

As you make your choice, remember that bards are one of the most complicated classes to play in the game, much more complicated than the monks, warriors, or rogues you have also suggested. Bards are hard to play well, but for me, and most of us here, the difficulty is one of the enjoyable things. We like challenges. If you like challenges too, the challenge to be flexible and adaptable, to fill different roles and different times, to play support songs sometimes instead of meleeing, to melee sometimes instead of hanging back, then consider a bard.

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Devamaru Silverlight
Torvonnilous

<Dinias>
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posted March 28, 2001 09:12 AM Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
Bards are 'melee' in a rater pitiful sense. After 40 against a 45+ monster you lose your awesome melee powers!Or, perhaps your 2 rounds(maybe 1) of attack.
Crystalline short sword and wurm tendon whip and you're still rather pathetic! Dealing with aggro can be a tricky one... The real bonuses a bard provides are regens, slows, hastes... And the latter 2 are singing only.

While you are a semi-melee class; you are an incompetent tank to the fullest. A monk is a melee class, as is a rogue. Bard tanking is put a few notches below rogue, then take away all of their defensive abilities.

Aggro. Control it. Most people think you're a tank up until level 35. It even pisses em off to see you selo away, half bubble of life with three red cons who can kill you in a half second chasing after you. Regen is a continual aggro. Anything else is fine. If you break and put back on a debuff, you will aggro even more!

Hastes/slows are really useful. You should be using them. Just never, ever tank without a cleric- a good cleric. I wouldn't rely on a druid or shaman as they typically are whiny healers. And don't forget- your tanks should be meleeing. You're more of a boombox with weapons.

Dilbis
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posted March 28, 2001 10:44 AM Profile for Dilbis Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
What Carlota said about bards being good pullers is very true, especially in outdoor zones. I always get weird responses to the first time someone is grouped with me and I say, "bad pull, splitting". At 23rd level, a bard gets Selo's Consonant Chain, and this song was build for splitting.
While moving away from the pull, chain the mobs that you do NOT want. The only ones that will be able to keep up are the ones that you do want (well, not keep up, but you can tease them into chasing you). The ones you do not want will just fall out of the aggro radius. Track back to your group on a circular route, leaving the unwanted mobs standing in the middle of no where.

Dinias also mentioned controlling aggro. Outdoors, I say go over to the dark side. Use no self control at all, generate maximum aggro and kite with a melee partner(s). A monk that is my level can not generate enough aggro to turn a mob that I am kiting with chains (slows both movement and attack, tremendous taunt factor), Tuyen's Chant of Flames (fire based damage over time, fire resist debuff, huge taunt), and Tuyen's Chant of Frost (cold based dot, cold resist debuff, huge taunt). Fufil's Curtailing Chant can be subtituted at lower levels for one of the chants, or if the mob is highly resistant to fire or cold.

As to Antok's original question, are bards over powered, my answer is well...it depends...

Soloing for bards at high levels is pretty much restricted to outdoor zones. Without root or the melee skills to go toe to toe, kiting becomes essential. There are many different ways of solo kiting, some bards charm kite like mad men and some fear kite. I, however, am a firm believer in a good drum.

One thing about soloing is that bards are not quick kill artists. We grind them down slowly and wear the mobs out. The good thing about this is not the killing time, it is the down time. There is NO down time on a well kited mob. The kill rate is comparable or maybe slightly better than a druid from kill to kill counting their med time.

As a bard, I can also solo high blues that just have too many hit points for a solo caster to tackle (and a solo melee would not even think about). Last night in Burning Woods, I killed Gylton and Az (named wurms that drop wurmslayer quest scales) almost back to back.

Indoors, things change. Conventional fighting styles take over, groups are needed. Bards have several songs which make them highly desired in groups. Examples include all of the haste lines, all of the slow mob attack rate lines, damage control such as March of the Wee or Shield of Song, downtime reduction songs such as health/mana regen songs, and the Jig of Vigor is still nice in a fast pulling group, no need to have a caster wasting mana on that.

If the group needs crowd control, do not be afraid to use Crission's Pixie Strike or charm to control the mobs. Many bards whine about the high resists of the songs, but check this out. Even as a bard, I can tank a mob when it is only hitting me one out of four ticks. Playing Hymn and Shield of song in the non-mezzing ticks mean that I can keep this mob out of the fight almost indefinitely, while REDUCING the damage that the tank takes.

Above all, be creative. Do not get hung up on how many flashing icons your group has. Some of the best twist combinations do not buff the party at all, and some only put up one buff. Please, experiment. Ask several (not just one, some are twinks set up for guild raids, power leveled the entire way) higher level bards for pointers. There are a few songs which are so pathetic that I would never mem them, but most have a purpose for groups, soloing, utility or travel.

Dilbis Xll <Balefire Clan>
53rd Human Bard
Tarew Marr

Tinolan
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posted March 29, 2001 08:38 AM Profile for Tinolan Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
That thinking is backwards. The better you do it, the more your enemy hates you. The more effective something is, especially things like healing, the more hate it causes. My hymn regens 20/tick with my lute (wish I had a better lute). If it's just me and one other person, that's 40/tick total, and doesn't cause much aggro. In a full group though, it's 120/tick and causesa LOT of aggro.
At lvl 43, I successfully kited those Kromrif Guardsmen outside Kael around. Obviously, they conned red to me. They also have some ridiculously high number of hit points. 15-20k or so. I can't imagine any other class doing that successfully.

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Tinolan
Minstrel of Epic Adventurers
Fennin Ro

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Posted @ Tue, Aug 28th 11:55 AM2001 | IP: Logged | Reply... Reply to this
By: Mahatma
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Ok, it depends on how you like to play, if you like to group and use weapons, go with AC and strength gear. If you like to group and use instruments, go with AC and Dex gear. Solo, probably just AC and str for now. In groups, you are going to be getting hit quite a bit while you are learning what songs aggro you the most, so it's a good idea to get your AC as high as you can reasonably afford (bronze or banded at L. 12) before worrying about your other stats.

...

Bards can be amazingly effective naked with only their instruments and weapons, in a group. However, for charming and mezzing purposes, it's best to go ahead and have the gear =)

Thunderous Silenc
40th Bard of the Innoruuk Server

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Zelandakh is online. Last active: 9/14/2004 3:40:22 AM Zelandakh
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Total Posts: 78

Re: confused...
Posted: Jul 20 04 7:30 PM
Many years ago when I was a lowbie bard I actually tanked rather alot. I was not twinked at all, I just concentrated almost exclusively on AC in my equipment. By level 45 (Kunark-era) I was one of the highest AC bards on my server, because most bards concentrated on cha and/or HP. The point was that I could quite happily hold aggro and taking the blows was easy with a good cleric behind me.

Now move on a little and our song aggro was drastically reduced. This was a good thing for bards, but it did change the class somewhat. Low level groups still expect the bard to tank (we wear plate after all) and do not understand the finer workings of song taunt. Aggro is a definite issue here.

Myself I am genuinely not fussed with taunt at the higher end of the game. We do have ways to hold aggro here if we really want to, from chain chanting to simply acquiring a +hate proccing weapon. I've tanked enough myself, and heard enough tales of bard's tanking raid bosses, to know this is a minor thing.

However, as you can tell from this post it is a long time since I was a low-level bard. Alot of my thoughts of this side of the game come from my partner who I persuaded to level up a bard recently. And yes she was asked to tank in several groups.

So I would like to ask Klappers at this point what he thinks are the big issues for low level bards right now. Not only has he seen this side of the game more recently than me, he also has contact with a large number of low level bards through Molto Expressivo. What sort of ideas would you like to see thrown out to replace jig as our level 3 song?

Smiley Zel Smiley
A song is worth a thousand pictures.