Rotations =/= handouts

[Splorf22]

One of the obnoxious fooleries that seems to be emanating from some of the more enervated members of TMO (and quite a few members of FE) is 'you guys just want handouts'. Usually this is rapidly followed by 'might as well give everyone epics and trakanon bps in ec' or other strawmen.

This may not be obvious to the members of certain zerg guilds, but there is a substantial difference between getting an item and fighting a dragon, and it involves the dragon. Now, I am not criticizing the zerg guilds for zerging. Variance makes this necessary: you have to have warm bodies to track, you have to have warm bodies to log in at 4AM, and if you do all that work you damn sure don't want to wipe, so you have a few extra warm bodies to give you a decent margin for error. So if you can log in 30 people at 4AM, you get 50 at 6PM. Thus was born the zerg.

The pernicious aspect of zerging, though, is that you begin to see the mobs as loot pinatas that you whack for free goodies. There is no challenge or strategy, all that matters is who can log in the fastest. I remember Dolic saying he enjoyed the challenge of forming groups quickly. Please forgive me if I am not impressed at your group forming skill - not that you need it when you have 50 players anyway. The game becomes all about the pixels and the competition from the other people who are there to whack the loot pinata, and not about the camaraderie or the thrill of the chase. The actual fight is no challenge.

TL;DR: If you choose to roll with 50 players so you can relax and smoke a joint, I have no problems. Just realize that that is your choice, and some of us find the content moderately challenging.

[Ravager]

Dey terk er merbs!

[citizen1080]

Spawn more overlords

[goshozal]

If you choose to roll with 15 players so the 3-year-old content is still moderately challenging, I have no problems. Just realize that that is your choice, and some of us find the race to engage to be the only remaining challenge.

[happyhappy]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you choose to roll with 15 players so the 3-year-old content is still moderately challenging, I have no problems. Just realize that that is your choice, and some of us find the race to engage to be the only remaining challenge.

Other side of the coin, it's your choice to play a subgame you made up instead of the actual game.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you choose to roll with 15 players so the 3-year-old content is still moderately challenging, I have no problems. Just realize that that is your choice, and some of us find the race to engage to be the only remaining challenge.

In the end though, this is a meta-sub-game that you made up. Saying that people that are playing real EQ are getting handouts is just silly. That is my point.

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the end though, this is a meta-sub-game that you made up. Saying that people that are playing real EQ are getting handouts is just silly. That is my point.

How is your EQ any more real than anyone else's? People zerged content on live. I remember going to a Trak raid that was 60+ players.

As Ele pointed out, people don't feel like it's handouts due to non-zerging guilds getting a shot. People feel like it's handouts because for the last 2+ years we've won loots by doing what we had to do in the track/race system, (which was the inevitable result of variance, as you have said many times) and now that behavior is labeled as "unfair." People don't like being told they're wrong/greedy/cheaters when they're doing what they had to do to conquer the system... because for them, conquering the system is the game. Their viewpoint is no less arbitrary than yours.

I still think you're right about repops, but I don't see this point.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Their viewpoint is no less arbitrary than yours.

No, it isn't. Because you guys have been playing VarianceQuest (hereafter referred to as VQ), which is not classic. So if some sort of raid agreement is worked out and people can get back to playing EQ rather than VQ, it's not a handout. Because VQ was an arbitrary non-classic impediment introduced by the server admins. People talking about handouts would be like MLB players after drug testing 'oh these people get to play without shooting up'. VQ is harder than EQ, so if you've been succeeding at VQ your attitude is that ordinary EQ is trivial. Well, I'm sorry, but that's the game.

Originally Posted by Turp

Everquest is one of the few games that if you get the dragon loot, you know you worked for it.

Like Maksim, you are confusing VQ and EQ. Killing PD is not hard, as the pickup raids proved. Your achievement is exploiting non-classic CSR and variance rules.

Originally Posted by Fabben

As angry as Loraen is at everyone, I can respect and agree with the fact that raiding with less people is a lot more fun. However, I have no idea what your post is for...

Using generic memes like 'u mad bro' when not called for . . . admits he cannot understand OP . . . no wit or panache . . . 2/10 forumquesting level

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it isn't. Because you guys have been playing VarianceQuest (hereafter referred to as VQ), which is not classic. So if some sort of raid agreement is worked out and people can get back to playing EQ rather than VQ, it's not a handout. Because VQ was an arbitrary non-classic impediment introduced by the server admins. People talking about handouts would be like MLB players after drug testing 'oh these people get to play without shooting up'. VQ is harder than EQ, so if you've been succeeding at VQ your attitude is that ordinary EQ is trivial. Well, I'm sorry, but that's the game.



Like Maksim, you are confusing VQ and EQ. Killing PD is not hard, as the pickup raids proved. Your achievement is exploiting non-classic CSR and variance rules.



Using generic memes like 'u mad bro' when not called for . . . admits he cannot understand OP . . . no wit or panache . . . 2/10 forumquesting level

VQ > PQ

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it isn't. Because you guys have been playing VarianceQuest (hereafter referred to as VQ), which is not classic. So if some sort of raid agreement is worked out and people can get back to playing EQ rather than VQ, it's not a handout. Because VQ was an arbitrary non-classic impediment introduced by the server admins. People talking about handouts would be like MLB players after drug testing 'oh these people get to play without shooting up'. VQ is harder than EQ, so if you've been succeeding at VQ your attitude is that ordinary EQ is trivial. Well, I'm sorry, but that's the game.

Indeed Loraen. The fact is how "competition" on this server has been defined and acted upon is crazy. I would like us to revisit how we want to compete on this server.

400-1000 Trak teeth? That is crazy.