Kunark / Iksar considerations

[sgallaty]

The kunark release had several issues. Specifically there were items which were nerfed post-launch (RFS/Moss covered junk/probably others I don't recall) about 2 months or so after kunark launch. I think the expectation is that these mistakes will be adjusted up front on p99 without the need for reliving the bad part of the eq experience.

There were also less salient content issues which caused problems for players that relied on that content that I hope can be addressed the same way. The specific example I am referring to is that when iksar were first introduced, they had a significant exp penalty and an armor bonus, as well as a few curious racial traits. One of the 'adjustments' to the race was that the race was unable to use plate mail.

Presumably, this was because the designers intended to create special iks wearable only armor, but this ended up not happening. There was armor added to hateplane, but there was never an iks equivalent of the warrior cobalt or 'crafted' armor.

As we know, and for reasons that aren't entirely clear - many legacy items that 'should' have been iksar usable did not get retroactively updated. Rubicite for example which is usable by chain classes, did not get iks added to the list, as well as other examples.

By velious time, this became a nonissue because the devs then permitted iksar to use all of the warrior plate from quests, pog etc. Curiously, the older armors were never retroactively fixed. This one presumes because the dev time to modify the items was no longer a great return, since by this time there were few or no newbie iksar tank melee.

The problem was then, that in the intervening period between the release of kunark and the latter period before velious - iksar suffered a big content void where their ac was capped fairly low compared to end game items available to other tank classes.

I see that this server avoids some of the other major verant fuckups (shaman alchemy, pie tin price change, loot table corruption on kunark release) - I'd like to put this topic out there and point out that letting iks use crafted/cobalt/fine steel would 'fix' the issue verant caused by not adding the content they intended to add for iks in the first place and then later fixed by simply making all new content iks usable.

I am speaking from the position of one of the few people who played an iks warrior on release, and even slimmer position of someone who beta tested kunark as an iks warrior - I think I was the only one who got past 40 in that.

The specific problem occurs at about cap where the non iks warriors are wearing cobalt and iksar are wearing cab scale. The fall behind happens starting at about level 35 and gets worse until cap. Again, the jump up from seb scale is hate plane - and if your guild is taking an iks into hate plane in seb scale, it's welfare. If I remember the numbers, the iks with the best reasonable gear is sporting 1300 or so ac, which ends up being 400-500 points lower than the other tank classes at cap. My numbers might be off, it's been a while but I remember there being a significant gap until velious.

If this error which was corrected later by verant isn't rolled in to the release, then noone who intends to seriously play iks will start an sk or war until velious. If that needs to be reenacted verbatim, then so be it. I just wanted to bring it up in case we had the chance to avoid that particular stupidity this time around.

Thanks for listening.

ex-test server iks warrior

[MiRo2]

The reason Iksars not being able to wear plate was supposed to balance their racial AC, that no other race gets. If it did not scale up appropriately on live than that should be your focus area, and not a complete armor overhaul. All classes that received the "Sol Ro" era armor quests ad an equivalent in Cabilis, shamans - Mystic Scale, Shadow Knights - Dread Scale, Warriors - Trooper Scale.

[Tokum-6n0m3]

I know for a fact that the xp penalty will be there...as the dev's constantly strive to give it a classic feel *hence the hybrid penalties being in now

That being said I don't know how much effort will be put into making items wearable for iksars....really looking back other then effects and raw AC value all but the BP and legs in kunark armor were basically useless, if i remember correctly the hate armor for iksars was better then the normal Indo that dropped, the stats were actually done right so they didnt have int on them and stuff, those stats coupled with Iksars ac bonus evens them out....

Normal Warrior Hate Breastplate- http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5230


Iksar Warrior Hate Breastplate- http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5230

Normal Warrior Hate boots - http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1813

Iksar Warrior Hate Boots - http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5252


As you can see EVERY piece of there hate armor has HPs on it to make up for the fact they wont get the 100hp off BP and LEGS from Cobalt armor..

That being said it does hinder you slightly as you lvl, but thats also why items like Lumberjack tunic and others are introduced during Kunark...edit= and the scale armor quest are there for lvln up also as the person above mentioned

[MiRo2]

Iksar specific armor drops in PoHate were not added during Kunark IIRC.

For comparison here is the Crafted vs. Trooper scale stat wise.
AC:
Trooper Scale Set: 11+9+9+20+11+12+12+10+11=105
Crafted Set: 12+10+10+22+12+14+14+12+12=118
STA:
Trooper Scale Set: 4+4+5=13
Crafted Set: 5=5
HP:
Trooper Scale Set: 25+20=45
Crafted Set: 25=25
AGI:
Trooper Scale Set: 5+3=8
Crafted Set: 0=0
STR:
Trooper Scale Set: 5+2+5+2+2=16
Crafted Set: 5+1+2+1=9
DEX:
Trooper Scale Set: 2+2+2=6
Crafted Set: 2+1=3

[sgallaty]

The point I am illustrating is that starting with velious this idea of seperate armor was discarded, and all pog/kael/etc. was unified, because - and for a very long time which was post-kunark release, iksar had a serious content issue.

The hate plane iksar armor came later - it wasn't kunark era per se.

I have to look at notes - and my memory is different because I was on test.

Yes there are some equivalents in the 30's, as pointed out - but as I said, there are no open world drops for iks that cover for the armor that gets other tanks INTO the planes to tank.

Again, as a clarification - this isn't a butthurt issue for me - just pointing out that without some changes noone who knows better will seriously play an iks until velious, because they'll know that they are screwed for armor until then. If we can take poetic license and fix other stuff before schedule, it'd be nice to do that too.


EDIT: I wasn't arguing against the exp penalties, just listing all the racials as an overview.

[Tokum-6n0m3]

I would definitely agree that if it wasn't put in on release it should be (regarding the hate armor) the rest waiting till velious would be fine if the hate armor was in, as with there ac bonus Im pretty sure itll even itself out, I remember a iksar warrior Fozzul wearing the hate armor until he upgrade to velious quest gear which leads me to think that the hate armor was in pre-velious as he was the first iksar warrior to hit 60 on erollisi if it was released during velious he would have never tooken the time to camp the items as he was already 60 well before velious and could have skipped it entirely being as he wasn't a MT in the guild he was in.

[Kassel]

I think the dev's have been clear they want to this server to as close to "Classic era" live as technically possible. This includes all hardships and pita's. They are not willing to devote their free time to making custom content so you can get a special hug EQ Experiance. There are many other emu servers who focus on what you are looking for, p99 is not one of them. If it was not on live during the classic triolgy they should not be wasting their time on it. IMO.

[DekThai]

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the dev's have been clear they want to this server to as close to "Classic era" live as technically possible. This includes all hardships and pita's. They are not willing to devote their free time to making custom content so you can get a special hug EQ Experiance. There are many other emu servers who focus on what you are looking for, p99 is not one of them. If it was not on live during the classic triolgy they should not be wasting their time on it. IMO.

[MiRo2]

I agree as well, this is a classic server. Just because the race has an option to be that class doesn't mean they should be even with other races of the same class. How many gnome or halfling warriors do you group with? Iksar warriors and shadowknights will not likely be main tanking raid level mobs on a regular basis, but that hardly means that they won't be better than other classes tanking.

Classic should stay classic on this classic server.

[ukaking]

My iksar warrior had some Hate armor before Velious as well.