Game Mechanics: Minimum Weapon Delay

[Treats]

Should be no minimum delay on weapons. Not sure exactly what it is now but did some tests with a Moss Covered Twig. All tests done on a 54 Monk with Moss Covered Twig in Primary and Fist in Offhand. 225 Double attack (55.8% chance to double attack). Keep in mind some of these calculations are thrown off by double attack chance. Would be best for a Bard to test this with NO double attack.

Test 1 - No FBSS (No Haste) - Haste 100%

153 swings in 101 seconds (Should be 10 delay) Parsed at 9.805
Calculations (10 delay = 1 swing per second)
101 seconds = 101 swings
(101 * .558) + 101 = 157 swings

Test 2 - FBSS - Haste 121%

133 swings in 68 seconds (Should be 8.2644 delay) Parsed at 7.906
Calculations
(68 / .82644) = 82.28 swings without double attack
(82.28 * .558) + 82.28 = 128 swings

Test 3 - FBSS + Aanya's Quickening - Haste 185%

112 swings in 61 seconds (Should be 5.405 delay) Parsed at 8.4722
Calculations
(61 / .84722) = 72.00 swings without double attack
(72 * .558) + 72 = 112.17 swings (Should be around 175)

Test 4 - FBSS + Aanya's Quickening Haste 185%

123 swings in 62 seconds (Should be 5.405 delay) Parsed at 7.8481
Calculations
(62 / .78481) = 79.00 swings without double attack
(79 * .558) + 79 = 123.082 swings (Should be around 175)

With spell haste it seems there is some sort of cap when there shouldn't be. Would really appreciate a Bard testing this.

Links referencing no delay cap:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums//...ad.php?t=19644
http://www.monkly-business.net/forum...ad.php?t=11513
http://www.evilgamer.net/forums/showthread.php?p=105798
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...ead.php?t=8739
http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...t=13777&page=2

Bixie Blade Stinger in Plane of Sky used to be a 2/6 weapon - Paladin only. Doesn't really make any sense to have a delay cap at 8 or 9 or 10 or whatever the stupid myth was and then turn around and put in a weapon with 6 delay.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5179
http://ayonae.com/pali-dmg-2-delay-6...s-13-t763.html

[Brinkman]

You are correct in thinking that there should be no delay cap. In classic through part of Kunark there was none. There is a reason nearly every weapon below 16 delay was nerfed. The fact that there was no delay cap was half, the other was the primary hand damage bonus.

However sometime shortly after the fast delay weapon nerfs in early to mid kunark, a Delay cap of 8 was hardcoded by Verant, primarily to keep any new weapons from being too powerful.

I beleive this delay cap is hardcoded client-side on P99 and most likely cannot be changed. Even if it could be changed, However, It would need to be changed back to the 8 delay cap very soon, like in less than a month. So basically all this is mute.

The twig and other weapons like it were godly on live. They are pretty much crap here on p99.

[Heartbeats]

Moot.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are correct in thinking that there should be no delay cap. In classic through part of Kunark there was none. There is a reason nearly every weapon below 16 delay was nerfed. The fact that there was no delay cap was half, the other was the primary hand damage bonus.

However sometime shortly after the fast delay weapon nerfs in early to mid kunark, a Delay cap of 8 was hardcoded by Verant, primarily to keep any new weapons from being too powerful.

I beleive this delay cap is hardcoded client-side on P99 and most likely cannot be changed. Even if it could be changed, However, It would need to be changed back to the 8 delay cap very soon, like in less than a month. So basically all this is mute.

The twig and other weapons like it were godly on live. They are pretty much crap here on p99.

With a hard coded minimum weapon delay of 8 a Monk equipped with Epic (9/16) fists and 100% V1 and V2 haste would NEVER EVER benefit from V3 Bard Haste.

Take the Revultant Whip also (5/14 Never nerfed) -- What you are saying here is this thing would only ever benefit from having 75% COMBINED V1, V2, and V3 haste. It makes no sense.

Capped weapon delay is and always has been a myth by people who failed at parsing. Trying to derive minimum weapon delay from a file that logs in increments of one second instead of counting total attacks.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Heartbeats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Moot.

Meh it happens, I was typing fast and did not go over it. I have better things to do. I know how to spell the word. Thank you however, for your wonderful contribution to this thread. It seems you dont have better things to do.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With a hard coded minimum weapon delay of 8 a Monk equipped with Epic (9/16) fists and 100% V1 and V2 haste would NEVER EVER benefit from V3 Bard Haste.

Take the Revultant Whip also (5/14 Never nerfed) -- What you are saying here is this thing would only ever benefit from having 75% COMBINED V1, V2, and V3 haste. It makes no sense.

Capped weapon delay is and always has been a myth by people who failed at parsing. Trying to derive minimum weapon delay from a file that logs in increments of one second instead of counting total attacks.

Go parse on live, you fill find there is a min delay of 8.

Think about what you are saying btw, You think these folks at P99 put in a cap? lmao It was already there, in the titanium client they used.

[Treats]

Straight from attack.cpp:

weapon_speed = ((int)(weapon_speed*(100.0f+attack_speed)*PermaHaste) / 100);
	if(weapon_speed < 10) // fast as a client can swing, so should be the floor of the proc chance
		weapon_speed = 10;

	ProcBonus += (float(itembonuses.ProcChance + spellbonuses.ProcChance) / 1000.0f + AABonus);

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Straight from attack.cpp:

weapon_speed = ((int)(weapon_speed*(100.0f+attack_speed)*PermaHaste) / 100);
	if(weapon_speed < 10) // fast as a client can swing, so should be the floor of the proc chance
		weapon_speed = 10;

	ProcBonus += (float(itembonuses.ProcChance + spellbonuses.ProcChance) / 1000.0f + AABonus);

[Treats]

10 delay is OBVIOUSLY not the lowest a weapon's delay can go, look at the parses WITH haste in my first post. No, it's not hardcoded. Fuck.

[baalzy]

10 delay is what is coded into the emu code (which could be and probably is different from p99). A previous poster is saying the client is hard-coded to 8. Your tests are saying that the delay floor is 8.

You're right, 10 delay is obvioulsy not the lowest delay a weapon can go to. 8 is the lowest delay, and there is no evidence suggesting that it can go lower.

Conclusion? It is possible that the client is hardcoded to 8 as the lowest possible hate.

......

Seems to me like somebody got grifted and is mad about it.