Raid Scene Rage Thread

[Splorf22]

So I have been reading/flaming the various raid scene threads. Let me sum them up for the casual scum reader who doesn't feel like immersing themself into the sea of pseudo-RNF sewage:

Forceful Entry got on the ball first with their 2 hour delay. Strangely, this would seem to hugely benefit them once TMO comes back: they'll get half the mobs, something they did not manage to do pre-TMO-ban, and with significantly less work. Bregan D'Aerthe, as the more or less consensus third guild, realized that this would be quite beneficial to them during TMO's ban and immediately agreed, trumpeting the new era of sharing. But once TMO comes back, they'd really prefer that the 2 hour delay apply for two weeks. Strangely, this would seem to hugely benefit them: they'd get close to one third of the mobs since they wouldn't have to compete against FE/TMO on week three and they can out-zerg/out-track most of the other guilds. The Mystical Order, not being retards with the exception of a few well-known trolls who shall remain nameless to keep this thread out of RNF for a few hours at least, immediately figured out these plays. Their goal is to share a bit here and there to keep Rogean more or less happy, but to give as little as possible to their competitors of the aforementioned guilds. Their strategy seems to be to wait and see. Taken and Azure Guard want a straight up rotation. Strangely this would seem to hugely benefit them: despite having less experience at batphoning and poopsocking and plausibly deniable trains and rushed engages and such then their competitors, they'd get a substantial crack at things.

So, not too surprisingly, everyone is pushing for the rules that benefit them while throwing out a bunch of rhetoric about how TMO is evil. So far nothing close to a consensus has emerged, and I see no reason why one will, if only because FE/IB and BDA are currently enjoying the fruits of TMO's suspension, and if Rogean will really keep TMO raid suspended until they agree to something, then FEIBDA has every incentive to make the negotiations last as long as possible.

What is driving me nuts this whole time is the obvious superiority of server repops to anything that can be negotiated:

• Rogean wants fewer petitions and wasted CSR time; repops put other guilds in different zones where its harder to fuck things up. Furthermore, the guides can figure out a repop time in advance when they can all be on and watching rather than 15 different times.
• Rogean wants a bit of a spread on loot, and repops give that: its very hard for one guild to run the table, especially since TMO can't train-delay in VP. Empirically, the last repop resulted in a pretty even distribution of mobs.
• The zerg guilds who roll with 50+ to trivialize the encounters hate the idea of 'handouts' (defined by them as mobs killed without time pressure regardless of actual mob abilities and level and such); those do not exist during repops
• Everyone can compete to their hearts content and it will be real competition to see who can do the encounters as quickly and cleanly as possible, not who can log on their 5th alt the fastest at 5AM.
• Server resets have been demonstrated to be extremely classic; variance is extremely not-classic.

Furthermore we now know that Rogean can make a repop happen with a total of 15 lines of GM commands, because it happened this Sunday. If Sirken were to make this a macro, he could make a repop happen in 3-4 seconds. There are zero technical hurdles. It's trivial. It doesn't take away from Velious development or anything else. And its clearly way less work that tackling hundreds of petitions.

All we need is repops and two simple rules: guilds are not allowed to split their forces, and players are not allowed to rotate between camped alts.. Boom, all raid problems solved. It's a win for everyone: the uberguilds get to compete without stepping on each others toes and get a bigger piece of the pie, the guides have less work to do, and the casual scum get a chance at the encounters without camping out alts, poopsocking, batphoning tracking, and all of the other nonsense.

Which brings me to Tinfoil Hat Time, courtesy of Derubael. Rogean is a smart guy and I'm sure he's realized all of the above. So the question is why hasn't he tried it?

OK, I had to get all this off my chest. You may now all flame me.

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[Derubael]

I'm so glad I clicked refresh before taking a break for the night.

Thx for summing up the days events for us casual scum. No way was I going to sift through 20 pages of talk about pts distribution and rotation discussion.

That being said, I laughed the hardest when you slipped in your repop idea for the last half of the post. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as repops go, it's kinda like pumping blood into someone who's bleeding out from a mortal wound. Yeah, they aren't going to die, but they're going to keep bleeding until you do something about the wound.

I agree that the occasional repop is not only awesome, fun, and enjoyable, but the reality is it's not something we can do every week or every other week.

[quido]

Trying to combat people using alts is a hopelessly lost cause.

[Funkutron5000]

The 2 hour limit thing was agreed upon only for the 2 weeks during the TMO suspension. We knew it would be roughly rotating between FEIB and TMO when they came back and were not pushing for it to extend.

We really just wanted to make sure we got something off the ground quickly so we could all enjoy the two weeks that lay ahead during the suspension, knowing full well there would be another round of negotiations involved once TMO was coming off suspension.

Thanks for assuming our intentions were the greediest possible, though!

[jaybone]

Originally Posted by Funkutron5000 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2 hour limit thing was agreed upon only for the 2 weeks during the TMO suspension. We knew it would be roughly rotating between FEIB and TMO when they came back and were not pushing for it to extend.

We really just wanted to make sure we got something off the ground quickly so we could all enjoy the two weeks that lay ahead during the suspension, knowing full well there would be another round of negotiations involved once TMO was coming off suspension.

Thanks for assuming our intentions were the greediest possible, though!

The fact that a guild is allowed on this server that makes EVERYTHING not fun is mind baffling.

[quido]

Originally Posted by jaybone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that a guild is allowed on this server that makes EVERYTHING not fun is mind baffling.

If everything is not fun, what the fuck are you doing here?

[Reguiy]

Regulating how people maneuver during repops or in general isn't a plausible idea imo. Whatever agreement is reached, it needs to be relatively simple and easy to implement and control. If the alt rule is breached in your proposed scenario, then GMs would be sifting through IP addresses and alt names for hours in order to punish the rule breakers.

Personally I feel like the easiest answer to this problem would be to repop mobs randomly every week or so, and prevent them from repopping at any other time. It would spread the loot without having to track or have people training/stalling/etc. But it is not classic at all.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Sarius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are artificially inflating the number of raid mobs with this proposal

Repops are classic, so whatever. Also it would depend on the details of how it was implemented. And finally, who gives a fuck when we have so many Kunark pixels anyway.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as repops go, it's kinda like pumping blood into someone who's bleeding out from a mortal wound. Yeah, they aren't going to die, but they're going to keep bleeding until you do something about the wound.

Imagine you run a prison. What do you think is more effective:

• At a random time, you throw a toy into the yard and let them all shank each other to play with it
• At a random time, you put 18 different toys into 18 different rooms.

It's pretty clear which strategy will involve less shanking.

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trying to combat people using alts is a hopelessly lost cause.

Your sig leads me to believe you might be slightly biased.

Originally Posted by Funkutron5000 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 2 hour limit thing was agreed upon only for the 2 weeks during the TMO suspension. We knew it would be roughly rotating between FEIB and TMO when they came back and were not pushing for it to extend. Thanks for assuming our intentions were the greediest possible, though!

Your officer Morphius seems to think differently:

Originally Posted by tyym

While we are all of course interested in promoting the spirit of cooperation amongst all players on this server, as officers of a guild our first interest is of course with our guild members who have worked so hard to put us where we are. Many of you are right, when TMO returns, it is basically FE/IB fighting them for mobs. If we engage in an agreement to open up mobs to the rest of the server, We have nothing to gain and potentially loot to give up.

HOWEVER, after saying this, we are still open to discussion. We are open to keeping the 2 hours delay after a target kill. If there is an interest in going beyond that, I am sure you are going to have to convince us and the leadership of TMO why and present us with an agreement that benefits us all.

That being said, IMO everyone is out for themselves in the end and I really have no problem with it. I just feel making repops the primary method of spawning mobs benefits everyone.

OK THAT IS ENOUGH FOR NOW

[happyhappy]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm so glad I clicked refresh before taking a break for the night.

Thx for summing up the days events for us casual scum. No way was I going to sift through 20 pages of talk about pts distribution and rotation discussion.

That being said, I laughed the hardest when you slipped in your repop idea for the last half of the post. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as repops go, it's kinda like pumping blood into someone who's bleeding out from a mortal wound. Yeah, they aren't going to die, but they're going to keep bleeding until you do something about the wound.

I agree that the occasional repop is not only awesome, fun, and enjoyable, but the reality is it's not something we can do every week or every other week.

Weeklyish Repops are very classic and had been considered in the past by members of the staff, heres posts from 2012-2013 from Rogean and nilbog tossing out ideas how repops could work.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...postcount=1208

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...&postcount=107

For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

This idea is neither new, nor just isolated to Loraen's mind.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Reguiy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally I feel like the easiest answer to this problem would be to repop mobs randomly every week or so, and prevent them from repopping at any other time. It would spread the loot without having to track or have people training/stalling/etc. But it is not classic at all.

Confused by how this is different from current variance?