Question regarding camp rules

[Odeseus]

Me and a few guildmates were having this discussion. It is mostly hypothetical since none of us knew the exact answer.

Anyway, we were discussing the spell: summon corpse and how annoying it is to farm and how overpriced it can be. I personally have killed ishva a few times so the conversation moved to how early you'd have to show up at the ishva spawn point to actually be the first one there. The last time I did it, I showed up 6 hours before spawn and was first one there. Called up a few friends and PL'd them to keep me from going insane sitting there for 6 hours. Tried to do the same thing a few times later and people were already there.

Then we got into the discussion of what you actually have to do to "hold" the ishva camp. Those of us in the discussion were split pretty evenly. The first group said that all you have to do is be in the room. You can be invis or FD and do literally nothing (basically afk) in the room for hours and hours and have claim to it. Since there is no PH, you don't need to do anything at all to hold the camp.

The other group believed that you have to at the very least clear the other mob spawn in the ishva room to "hold" the camp. If for no other reason than to show that a) you have the ability to kill ishva when it pops b) you are not afk the entire time. This group reasoned that if someone was FD/invis and afk in ishva room "holding" the camp, they could come in and clear the area and would therefore have claim to the camp. I thought that this was would be kind of a dick move, but so is FDing at the camp and then going to take a nap (or whatever) and still "holding" the camp.

I'm wondering what the community thinks and if the GMs have any rules about this. If I'm simply stupid and missed a rule or post that clears this up, please just refer me to it and more or less ignore this thread.

[LevinJ]

This is very similar to Haddon (lvl25 mob pops in newb zone and perma farmed by lvl50's). There is nothing nearby remotely dangerous to a level 50 (maybe tough fight for ranger). Another mob on the same faction as haddon is immediately next to his spawn spot and will assist Haddon against people of his own level range but not against level 50's. Nobody kills that other mob or believes that it needs to be killed for Haddon to be "camped." Haddon is a 5.5 hour spawn with no PH.

[Extunarian]

This is a tough one and I think there should be some clarification in the rules. They do state that you need to respect the presence of anyone at the camp before you, but at the same time they do say AFK camping is frowned upon. Of course in this case they are talking about AFK'ing and letting your pet kill things for you, but I think it should be expanded to include spawns on long timers.

Just this last weekend I camped Hadden starting ~4 hours before he was due to spawn. Left my laptop in the living room and started doing stuff around the house, returning to the computer every 10-15 minutes to answer tells and click my peggy cloak to show that I wasn't taking a nap. I think this was fair to the people who were showing up and asking me if I was camping hadden, what the spawn timer was, etc.

I think that if you show up to a long spawn and someone is there, they should need to respond to you within 15-20 minutes or so to keep the camp. It isn't fair to park a character in the morning, leave the house, and then come back 7 hours and 55 minutes later to scoop up the kill, and you should expect to have your camp stolen in those circumstances.

[stonebeard22]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just this last weekend I camped Hadden starting ~4 hours before he was due to spawn. Left my laptop in the living room and started doing stuff around the house, returning to the computer every 10-15 minutes to answer tells and click my peggy cloak to show that I wasn't taking a nap. I think this was fair to the people who were showing up and asking me if I was camping hadden, what the spawn timer was, etc.

I think that if you show up to a long spawn and someone is there, they should need to respond to you within 15-20 minutes or so to keep the camp. It isn't fair to park a character in the morning, leave the house, and then come back 7 hours and 55 minutes later to scoop up the kill, and you should expect to have your camp stolen in those circumstances.

I think you kind of hit it right on the head. Doing something show your actively checking your PC. Talking and responding to people every XX minutes. Etc.

In the good ole days I remember watching TV while camping stuff, and sometimes I would get wrapped up in a show then look back over to see the named spawn. =D

[Kassel]

but at the same time they do say AFK camping is frowned upon

"Afk camping" is when your pet kills mobs while you are afk. It is not what is being discussed in this thread. I understand the terminoligy can be confusing, but the GMs have confirmed that having your pet kill mobs while you afk is what is being refered to in the "camps defined" thread.

They have also said you can be AFK while camping and it is with in the rules. The Paw ring in befallen was used as an example. If you are sitting in the room AFK then coming back to the computer right before the timed mob pops. As long as you kill it "shortly" (which not been defined) you are with in the rules. If you leave the area in between "timers" and return just as the mob has poped but find another player waiting, you have lost your camp. Basically your toon has to be sitting in the room, but you do not have to be sitting at the comp during the waiting to pop period. GM's have also stated you are NEVER required to respond to any tell or CC about your camp, although its a great idea to help avoid disputes.

I think that if you show up to a long spawn and someone is there, they should need to respond to you within 15-20 minutes or so to keep the camp. It isn't fair to park a character in the morning, leave the house, and then come back 7 hours and 55 minutes later to scoop up the kill, and you should expect to have your camp stolen in those circumstances.

I disagree - I feel if a toon is parked at a Camp, you should move on. It is fair to leave a toon parked in an area, you have no idea if they have left the house or simply taking a killer dump. If a toon is sitting where you want to be simply move on, it would be great if they could let you know when they are done but they are not obligated to. If you want to wait because you think they are terminally afk so be it. If the mob pops and they are AFK and thus do not kill it "shorlty" i would think that mob is free game for you to kill. I would be careful as shortly is not defined it will be easy to be accused of KSing. IMO 2 min is shortly, but my opinion means nothing.

Those are my thoughts, but it would be great if we could get a GM to weigh in.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Kassel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

STUFF

Hi Hassel!

Yeah, I think you and I said the same thing. The full context of my quote was

but at the same time they do say AFK camping is frowned upon. Of course in this case they are talking about AFK'ing and letting your pet kill things for you

So I'm aware that is what the rule was made for. However I would contend that it needs to be expanded to explicitly state whether or not being AFK while camping a long spawn is enough to hold the camp. I am not really in one camp or another, but to avoid any confusion I chose to remain semi-active throughout my camp last weekend.

I'm compelled to believe you when you say a GM put this matter to rest, but I did search the forum but was unable to find where a GM stated that being AFK at a long camp for the duration of the spawn timer was ok, specifically in the Ishva case. Do you have a specific post in mind that you could link?

Thanks!

[BucMan55]

As far as shortly I would consider 5-10 minutes.


But I'm just a peon so what do I know.

[Beauregard]

As far as Ishva is concerned I believe there is no need to clear the room spawn to hold the camp, you just gotta be the first one there.

Afking in the room while holding the camp is accepted, as long as you don't have a pet up killing the room spawn.

Clarification on this specific camp would be great.

[cvinion]

In all honesty If your a Shaman, Druid, Necro or any other class that can levitate and you see a person AFK at a spawn such as the one mentioned with a 7 hour pop timer and no PH then just levitate them and do the "Afk Shuffle" and move them out of the room. I think that if you are AFK long enough to let someone move your charcter via levitation and literally tens of minutes of slowly nudging you out of your spot then I feel they earned the right to the spawn.

The rules say nothing about this, and if a GM does get involved you can always take a /time stamped screenshot of the other player not in the room after you push them out. The rules only say you have to be at the spawn and its only taking a spawn if you kill it when it was someone elses camp, theres nothing about moving other players via levitation.

C'mon people, think outside the bun....errr box!

[Odeseus]

And from the above posts, you can see where it gets confusing. The lines are a bit blurry on this issue.

Hassel is right that I cannot know why a person is afk. But having a necro FD and go AFK at a camp and go to bed, then go to work and arrive back at his comp 24 hours or so after he arrived, but a minute before ishva pops. By all some of the logic presented above, he would have full and total rights to the camp because his toon was there for literally 24 hours AND no one can prove he wasn't AFK because he is not required to respond to anything, nor is he required to kill anything. If this is what is accepted, why doesn't any necro who has the timer simply FD AFK there for huge amounts of time? They would never EVER lose the camp. And as a mage, my invis does not last forever. I cannot AFK for hours and hours in the room like a necro could. So I would never even remotely have a chance to be there "before" a necro using FD AFK.

That (in a nutshell) is what the problem is for that group.