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Old 04-26-2011, 12:25 PM
quido quido is offline
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I'd like to know the black and white rules regarding claiming (non-raid) mobs at this point. It seems that everyone has their own interpretation of the rules that they invoke at will to complain about whatever it is.

I was under the impression that things pretty much stood at "if it's not engaged, it's not claimed." I tried to find the post where I read that - I thought it was an Uthgaard or a Rogean thing designed to make things easy for everyone, including the GMs. I thought that for you to call a mob "yours" you had to either be sitting over or around its spawn or already fighting it. I've always sort of borne the question "how bad do you want it?" in mind. It's like going to a rock concert and trying to get to the front row - how bad do you want it? If you want something, take it! All you need to do is want it more than the next guy.

Now there's the other whiny side of the argument. "I'm claiming these mobs and if you pull any of them I'm gonna cry about it in /say." We're all hungry for experience. We're all hungry for drops. Everyone wants their own little piece of Norrath and I'll be damned if I'm not going to try and get mine. The problem with the "respect camps 100%" platform is first that no one ever does. Second, it is impossible to define what is and isn't allowed. If a (slow) group was claiming LGuk Lord and the hallway mobs and another group wants some of that hallway action, who is to stop them? I thought that was the idea, that if you're willing to accept poor enough experience (or whatever) yourself, you can break off a little piece of just about anything and call it your own.

Personally I would like to live in a Norrath where everyone had partitioned, bountiful camps and nobody ever "stole" a mob. Unfortunately there is an amount of scarcity in Norrath just like the real world that will prevent such a utopia from ever existing. For a long time I tried to respect the mobs that people were "claiming" no matter how ineffectively they killed them. And sometimes it's worse than others, but people often lay claim to camps they can barely handle and consequently leave several mobs up constantly. When I can't find any decent mobs to kill, are these not fair game? I mean, if it's really yours, you should be fighting it, in my opinion. "No I get twenty and you get ZERO!" This is bullshit. At what point can you eventually slide in there and call some of those mobs yours? If you asked the people there first they'd say "never." If you asked a group that's hungry for experience and has no mobs they'd say "immediately." So what is really right here on this server? Can I take/claim some of those LGuk Lord hallway mobs legitimately? If people are hard up enough and willing to deal with the misery, can a second group split KC Captain into two, especially if the first group is clearing slowly? How long is too long to engage a mob before it is "unclaimed?" One minute? Two minutes? Five minutes?

If I want something badly enough I will do everything I can to get it. If I'm in a group in KC basement and someone pulls some of the mobs that I think belong to my group I don't whine in /say about it. I think to myself "damn it, we'd better get those fuckers next time." And hopefully we do.

My point here is that you can't really claim anything, and that trying to live in a Norrath that creates a huge gray area in which people will wallow is completely absurd. I thought the black and white rules were "if it's not engaged, it's not claimed." Is this wrong? Perhaps someone could link me to the thread where a ridiculous set of camp rules are clearly defined?

Please, learn me good!
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:33 PM
Mardur Mardur is offline
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The way the rules are worded is that a group can only camp one room at a time, and anything not being camped is free game. For example, if a D2 group is sitting in Commander, by the rules posted here a group is free to move into Pickler and just kill those 3 mobs if they want Pickler enough.

Unfortunately the GMs don't actually enforce the rules posted on this forum. I've seen all kinds of crazy decisions when it comes to camps, which usually depends on whichever GM responds to the petition. In the example above, if a group actually moved into Pickler while a group was at D2, I bet a GM would kick the group out of Pickler which would go against the "official" camp rules.

Not trying to flame any specific GMs or anything, just saying that the rules seem to be open to GM interpretation. Your best bet is just being cordial and trying to work out camp disputes among yourselves. If a GM shows up, you'll most likely be unhappy with the results.

TLDR: There's posted rules but they don't matter. Try to just work things out among yourselves.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:37 PM
Kassel Kassel is offline
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So we are sitting in seb this weekend and our shaman has to go. We see Jeremy yell 59 shaman LFG. Our shaman says do you guys want him to rep me? 2 people in the group said NO, that guy was a jerk stealing mobs in KC.

I laughed and agreed.

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Quote:
Greetings,

We will be tweaking this along with some other rules as we move forward but it is time to address some issues with camps that have been coming up. I will try to use some examples to clarify rules.

1. Going forward, if you intend to hold or claim a camp, your group must retain presence at that camp. If you have no competition in the zone, you are more than welcome to hold as many as you like. The moment another party wants to claim a camp and you are "farming" multiple, you must decide which camp you want and forfeit the ones someone else is interested in. We still expect players to use the courtesy camp check before zerging a room. If there is a full spawn of mobs in a camp room up I think that would be considered not camped. How you pull the camp is up to you, as long as you are able to engage the mobs very shortly after they are spawned.

*Example* You are doing Ghoul Magi, Lord, and Frenzy in lguk. Another group arrives to claim a camp. If they stumble upon a spawned room devoid of players, they can claim it. Where your group resides is your camp; choose wisely.

2. Just because you know the timer a mob's spawn does NOT mean you are entitled to the camp. Examples include Ishva mal, Estrella, and Undertow. I have seen too many threads about ishva mal in particular where there is a person there at the camp and someone comes and either KS's the spawn or charms the mob to bring it somewhere else etc claiming it was theirs due to it being on timer. If you are trying to timer a spawn and you arrive and someone else is there, too bad, you should have been there earlier.

3. The efreeti spawn kind of covers both of these situations, with this camp in particular if you are not at the spawn and another group arrives, you lose it.

4. In order to hold a camp, the player or group must be able to demonstrate the ability to hold the camp without further help.
*Example* An enchanter and lvl 40 ranger are in a group. The enchanter leaves to go kill frenzy and the ranger stay at lord. In this instance both camps are not considered held as the ranger could not survive this camp on his own without the enchanter.

5. Outdoor pathing mobs are not campable unless you are sitting at the spawn point and able to engage it instantly. Outdoor mobs on fast respawn such as HG and spectres, if you cannot engage immediately you do not hold the camp. Please try and share with fellow players in these instances.

6. AFK camping is not respected and is frowned upon, if caught afk camping you will be booted to the character select screen.

7. We do not have a rule for how a camp will be handed off to another player. It is recommended the player interested in obtaining a camp work that out with who is on the camp already.
*Example* Player a is on jboots, player b comes and sits and just waits. If player a wants to hand off to his friend rather than player b, he has that right. If player a wants to hold a list and give to the next player on that list, that is also his right. GMs will not moderate that unless player b can prove he was deceived by player a with how the camp would be handed off.

Any deal between players trumps any of these rules so long as all players agree. These rules are here to be a guide to players for what rights they have while in the game. In my opinion this is very similar to what SoE did with camp disputes in game. As Nilbog has said in this thread, in 99 every named spawn in zones would have entire groups at them. If one group was capitalizing on more than one spawn and a second group wanted half or to share and then petitioned, PNP would be enforced and the groups would be forced to share. This is a guide explaining how we would like things to be shared.

Failure to comply and respect these rules will be viewed as disruptive behavior and players will be subject to disciplinary action. Please dont let it come to this.
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:41 PM
quido quido is offline
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Well first off, it's nothing personal, it's strictly business. Most people know I'm an effective groupmate and a nice guy in general.

And secondly, I thought those rules had been superseded by now. Sometimes I have people quoting posts from 2009 to me. That post is from January of 2010 and I'm pretty sure those rules don't apply any more. Am I wrong?

Honestly, I'm glad idiots will bear a grudge. Hate me for taking mobs you don't clear quickly enough. Please. Because if this is your basis of judgment for a person, you are clearly a fucking moron.
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Last edited by quido; 04-26-2011 at 12:45 PM..
  #5  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:43 PM
Susanbanthony Susanbanthony is offline
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I was always under the impression that if a mob is not engaged, and if you are not sitting on its spawn point, it is FFA.

Guess I could be mistaken?
  #6  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Kassel Kassel is offline
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I would not say they do not apply, now enforcement that is another question. My general rule of thumb is that if it is still stickied there is a good chance it is still applicable.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Mardur Mardur is offline
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a. Jeremy > Hassel
b. Those rules still "apply" but like I said in my post, I've never seen them enforced 100% as they're written.

For example, KC. It doesn't really have campable "rooms." Drolvarg Captain is really the only camp spot that is clearly defined. If you're anywhere else, it's been a free for all since day 1 of Kunark. Everyone who has grouped there knows this.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:46 PM
Kassel Kassel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanbanthony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I was always under the impression that if a mob is not engaged, and if you are not sitting on its spawn point, it is FFA.

Guess I could be mistaken?
I am under the impression this is for #5 wrt to outdoor pathing mobs only, HOWEVER a room is what is considered a camp, thus you would be at a spawnmpoint anyway. An updated camp post would be nice =D
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:49 PM
quido quido is offline
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Someone find me the post where Uthgaard or Rogean wiped the slate clean on rules and said if it's not engaged, it's not claimed. I know it's out there.
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:52 PM
Seaweedpimp Seaweedpimp is offline
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If i step into a room and its full spawn with nobody in it, ill take it.
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